T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
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psacollector
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T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
To me this might be the most intriguing of all t206 rarities. A proof card of a HOFer with an unissued action pose from the monster  doesn't get much better than that. Unfortunately I don't know too much about this card besides that it once belonged to Charlie Sheen and was later auctioned off for big bucks.
Can some of you t206 guys give us a little background on when/how it was found? Was it found by itself, or with a group of other proofs? As an owner of a t206 proof (Mattern, Boston Nat'l), this is of particular interest to me. A scan of the catalog page from when it was auctioned (when was that?) would be very much appreciated as well.
And here's Eddie...
Can some of you t206 guys give us a little background on when/how it was found? Was it found by itself, or with a group of other proofs? As an owner of a t206 proof (Mattern, Boston Nat'l), this is of particular interest to me. A scan of the catalog page from when it was auctioned (when was that?) would be very much appreciated as well.
And here's Eddie...
Re: T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
My memory is hazy about its history but I seem to remember that is found with small group of proof cards, about 812. I think most of the proofs were Southern Leaguers. I seem remember first hearing about them around 1985. I'm getting old and was out of the hobby to long, so much of this sort of thing is hazy.
Jay
Jay
Re: T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
Maybe Rob Lifson can chime in, since he purchased this card from the original find at a show. From what I remember reading, there were several T206 and T3 proofs at a table (the show gave the person a table to sell their cards). Rob ended up with the Collins proof, Mastro acquired it from Rob, then, Rob acquired it back from Mastro. Again, this is what I have read. Of course Rob Lifson would have all the details of the proof cards at the show.
scott elkins Inactive
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Re: T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
the t3 proofs were found in the early 1970's in nyc.
there were t206 proofs in the group, however i thought the collins and 7 or 8 slers were found later in the mid80's.
i am unaware of charlie sheen owning the collins, i thought keith obermann bought all 8 or 9 proofs.
my understanding was that the group of proofs found in the mid 80's were all unique, in that none were ever issued vs. the proofs that were found in the 70's, they were all issued cards.
there were t206 proofs in the group, however i thought the collins and 7 or 8 slers were found later in the mid80's.
i am unaware of charlie sheen owning the collins, i thought keith obermann bought all 8 or 9 proofs.
my understanding was that the group of proofs found in the mid 80's were all unique, in that none were ever issued vs. the proofs that were found in the 70's, they were all issued cards.
andybecker Minor Leaguer
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Re: T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
Andy's recollection is what I remember of the find too, that KO bought them all that all cards where unknown poses.
Jay
Jay
T206 Finds
Hello gentlemen,
There were two different events. In the 1970s at a show in NY there was some T206s and T3 proofs which Keith O. mentions in one of his VBC articles. The Collins was one of the T206s.
Later, in the 1980s, Keith purchased the "Eight men in' which he again wrote a great article about. These had been sitting in an old time dealer/collector's inventory.
Patrick
There were two different events. In the 1970s at a show in NY there was some T206s and T3 proofs which Keith O. mentions in one of his VBC articles. The Collins was one of the T206s.
Later, in the 1980s, Keith purchased the "Eight men in' which he again wrote a great article about. These had been sitting in an old time dealer/collector's inventory.
Patrick
The Rest of the Story
I just pulled out my The Vintage & Classic Baseball Collector Magazines to see if my memory was as bad as the rest of you guys.
Not bad...
Here's the two articles to reference by Keith Olbermann.
Issue #9: How Many Cards In The TZ206 Set? (Page 22)
Issue #23: Eight Men In (Page 22)
The Eddie Collins proof walked into the biannual "convention" in New York in the early 1970s. A relative of someone who worked in the place where they actually printed the cards brought them in.
The 8 new T206 proofs were consigned in 1999 to Bill Mastro by "a pair of veteran but pretty much inactive East Coast Dealers" that finally got out of the business. They consigned a huge group of cards that the eight T206 Minor League proofs were part of.
Hope this helps.
Patrick
Not bad...
Here's the two articles to reference by Keith Olbermann.
Issue #9: How Many Cards In The TZ206 Set? (Page 22)
Issue #23: Eight Men In (Page 22)
The Eddie Collins proof walked into the biannual "convention" in New York in the early 1970s. A relative of someone who worked in the place where they actually printed the cards brought them in.
The 8 new T206 proofs were consigned in 1999 to Bill Mastro by "a pair of veteran but pretty much inactive East Coast Dealers" that finally got out of the business. They consigned a huge group of cards that the eight T206 Minor League proofs were part of.
Hope this helps.
Patrick
Re: T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
Patrick, you are correct  the cards Keith O. won were unissued SL'ers and auctioned by Mastro (they were in a hoard of cards a couple of NY dealers owned and had no idea what they were). The 1970's find is where the T3 and T206 proofs came from that included the unissued Collins card.
Now, if someone can find an unissued T206 SL'er card of Jackson, that would be the Holy Grail of T206 Proofs! BTW  if it does exist, the T206 card of Shoeless Joe would be the same pose as his T210! Imagine what a color version of Jackson with the coat would look like!
Now, if someone can find an unissued T206 SL'er card of Jackson, that would be the Holy Grail of T206 Proofs! BTW  if it does exist, the T206 card of Shoeless Joe would be the same pose as his T210! Imagine what a color version of Jackson with the coat would look like!
Last edited by scott elkins on Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
scott elkins Inactive
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Re: T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
If I remember the history of the Collins card correctly, when Rob Lifson acquired the card back from Bill Mastro, it was sold to Copeland (I believe). Then, I think Charlie won it from the Copeland auction. If not, he won it the second time it was auctioned (OR, that was when Charlie Sheen auctioned it  I am not certain).
scott elkins Inactive
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Re: T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
patrick, thanks....i'll reread those today.
anyone know how many t206 proofs and how many t3 proofs walked into the NYC show? has it ever been documented?
anyone know how many t206 proofs and how many t3 proofs walked into the NYC show? has it ever been documented?
andybecker Minor Leaguer
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Re: T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
The 8 unlisted SLers lot was auctioned off by Mastronet in 1999. Here's the auction description:
Scan from t206museum:
The T206 tobacco card set has been avidly pursued since its inception in 1909. This first huge full color series has tormented collectors for 90 years but it has been accepted to be complete at 523 cards including the Doyle variation. It was speculated that there may have been a group of proofs produced of players and poses not seen in the cards actually inserted into packs or cataloged by collectors.
About 25 years ago a gentlemen walked into a card show in New York and stunned those in attendance by producing about 400 T206 proof cards (blank backed with printers proof lines) and about 80 T3 proofs. Of that amazing group only one was of a player or pose not already known. It was of Eddie Collins in a pose not previously seen. That Collins card was sold about 5 years ago for an astronomical sum of money.
This is a group of eight T206 proofs, each of which represents a player and pose not previously cataloged. Each is unique and each expands the known universe of T206 subjects by one. All are of Southern League players, judging from the uniforms shown on the players. They are definitely not from the group that emerged in New York. Those cards were all fresh and unhandled. This fabulous octet was treated like the vast majority of T206's that we see. Worn corners, creases and writing all appear indicating that the previous owners suspected nothing of the unique nature of the cards. Any one of these cards would individually make any collection of T206's one of a kind. A quantum increase of eight is monumental. While condition is not the overriding factor in the value of these solitary specimens we nevertheless present a report for posterity.
Condition Report: (Starting from top left corner)
 A Chatanooga batter with evenly rounded corners, solid VGEX
 A Danville pitcher in a home uniform in his windup, "Kline" is written in the lower border in pencil with tiny paper chipping loss, VG
 A player reaching to make a catch in a road uniform with an "M" on the chest and hat (Macon or Memphis), with tack hole in upper border, GDVG
 A Jacksonville(?) player portrait in a home jersey, a crease across top and "Rath" written in bottom border in pencil and numbers scribbled in pencil on the back, GD
 A player in a batting follow through in a road uniform with an "M" on the hat and jersey, corner creases and "Rougherty, Mil" written in the lower border in ink and "Rougherty" in pencil on the back, a crease runs diagonally from left to right (the owner misidentified the team),GD
 A Jacksonville player portrait in a home jersey, VGEX
 A Chatanooga player in a batting pose with two creases and a small nip out of the lower left border, on the back is written "Alcock" in pencil with some scribbled numbers, GDVG
 A pitcher for Jacksonville in a road uniform with the name "Mullany" written in pencil in the bottom border, VG+
All cards are very conservatively graded, as a previously unseen lot they are eye popping and connoisseurs of early tobacco will immediately be taken with their rarity. One of the most significant finds in the history of our hobby. Never before have the subjects of a major set been increased by eight new additions simultaneously. This is not an obscure set. It has been analyzed, dissected cataloged and checklisted for 90 years. The addition of eight subjects is both startling and monumental. All are blank backed and all bear the printer's proof marks in each border marking them as genuine proofs. Don't bother to check a price guide, they can only be found here.
Minimum Bid: $10,000
Final Bid including 15% buyer premium: $48,042
Additional Note: The eight players are:
 Alcock, Chattanooga
 Dwyer, Jacksonville
 Lee, Jacksonville
 Mayberry, Danville
 Meek, Chattanooga
 Osteen, Montgomery
 Pepe, Montgomery
 Roth, Jacksonville
Scan from t206museum:
Re: T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
Wow. Great post Ben. Thanks for digging it up and getting the text and photos all in one spot.
I will reveal my T206 ignorance by asking the following question. If the set was considered complete at 523 in 1999, is that because there were 524 and it was considered complete without the Wagner? I think it's now figured at 526 with Demmit and O'Hara STL's, and complete at 520 without Wagner, Plank, Doyle (var), Magie and the two STL's.
Is that right, or was there another card found between 1999 and now to take it from 523 to 524 (before the STL's)?
J
I will reveal my T206 ignorance by asking the following question. If the set was considered complete at 523 in 1999, is that because there were 524 and it was considered complete without the Wagner? I think it's now figured at 526 with Demmit and O'Hara STL's, and complete at 520 without Wagner, Plank, Doyle (var), Magie and the two STL's.
Is that right, or was there another card found between 1999 and now to take it from 523 to 524 (before the STL's)?
J
jmk59 All Star
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Re: T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
nice! Do you know how much that lot sold for?
cmoking All Star
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t206 Count
518 + Demmitt & O'Hara (Polar Bears) = 520
520 + Wagner, Magie + Plank = 523
523 + Doyle = 524
Then just pick which number you want to collect.
520 + Wagner, Magie + Plank = 523
523 + Doyle = 524
Then just pick which number you want to collect.
pro9 Retired Mod
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Re: T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
I personally am a 518 guy, maybe in the future it will be 520 but I don't see that coming soon.
Lee
Lee
bowlingshoeguy Sultan of the Cycle Back
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Re: T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
cmoking wrote:nice! Do you know how much that lot sold for?
$48,042 after juice for the 8 SLers. The Collins proof sold for $24,930 at a Leland's Auction in 2000.
How do you all think they'd do at auction today?
Re: T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
I would say the Collins would go well over $50k today.
As for a T206 set, I would say it is complete at 522, as the Magie and Doyle are simply "errors" and should not be included in a "set". There are so several other errors in the T206 set and none of these are included in the complete set  simply as variations (as they should be).
The guides have finally cleaned up the T207 set numbers to NOT inlcude the back errors (there were always a couple of cards listed in the set that had wrong backs and this shouldn't have been). Maybe one day the T206 set checklist will get "cleaned up" to not include the Magie and Doyle error cards in the checklist as well.
As for a T206 set, I would say it is complete at 522, as the Magie and Doyle are simply "errors" and should not be included in a "set". There are so several other errors in the T206 set and none of these are included in the complete set  simply as variations (as they should be).
The guides have finally cleaned up the T207 set numbers to NOT inlcude the back errors (there were always a couple of cards listed in the set that had wrong backs and this shouldn't have been). Maybe one day the T206 set checklist will get "cleaned up" to not include the Magie and Doyle error cards in the checklist as well.
scott elkins Inactive
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Re: T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
scott elkins wrote: Maybe one day the T206 set checklist will get "cleaned up" to not include the Magie and Doyle error cards in the checklist as well.
That will never happen because these cards are too high profile
Jay
Re: T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
Rob Lifson is very busy with his current auction. However, he was kind enough to send me the following information about the Collins Proof card, along with the auction description (the auction from which Charlie Sheen purchased the card).
Hi Scott! I'm not posting right now because it is too time consuming but here is a copy of the REA auction from 1994 when we sold the Collins proof. I bought the card along with a couple others from the original find at the NY show at District Center 65 in the 1970s. I think it they were $13 each. When another proof was selling for $18 or $19 in the live auction at a convention in the Midwest, I agreed to sell a sample proof to Bill Mastro for $17 (he was the underbidder at the auction and was sitting near where I was). He looked through my cards later after the auction and picked the Collins, noting it was unissued. I was not not happy and naturally did not want to sell that example after he pointed this out (I was unaware this was an unissued pose at the time, live and learn) but he said it was too late, he picked it and he owned it. (He had a point, maybe not the best point, but a point. He was much older than me and I felt I couldn't do anything, but in retrospect, I would never do that to any one). I tried to make the best of the situation. I bought it back for about $2000 in trade at the same show, and sold it to Barry Halper for a $500 profit when I got home. Barry was thrilled. In 1994 Barry let me put the card up for auction with a $50,000 minimum. He knew it was high but he thought it would sell. He was right, but it only got the opening bid. Charlie Sheen bought it for $56,000 (including the then12% buyers premium). Lelands sold it years later. Hope this helps!
Sincerely,
Rob L
Hi Scott! I'm not posting right now because it is too time consuming but here is a copy of the REA auction from 1994 when we sold the Collins proof. I bought the card along with a couple others from the original find at the NY show at District Center 65 in the 1970s. I think it they were $13 each. When another proof was selling for $18 or $19 in the live auction at a convention in the Midwest, I agreed to sell a sample proof to Bill Mastro for $17 (he was the underbidder at the auction and was sitting near where I was). He looked through my cards later after the auction and picked the Collins, noting it was unissued. I was not not happy and naturally did not want to sell that example after he pointed this out (I was unaware this was an unissued pose at the time, live and learn) but he said it was too late, he picked it and he owned it. (He had a point, maybe not the best point, but a point. He was much older than me and I felt I couldn't do anything, but in retrospect, I would never do that to any one). I tried to make the best of the situation. I bought it back for about $2000 in trade at the same show, and sold it to Barry Halper for a $500 profit when I got home. Barry was thrilled. In 1994 Barry let me put the card up for auction with a $50,000 minimum. He knew it was high but he thought it would sell. He was right, but it only got the opening bid. Charlie Sheen bought it for $56,000 (including the then12% buyers premium). Lelands sold it years later. Hope this helps!
Sincerely,
Rob L
scott elkins Inactive
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wow...
great story....Charlie Sheen would have bought it even if it were priced at $100,000. He had the $ back then. Sometimes all it takes is a celebrity to pay top dollar for a card.
Mark
Mark
Square_Frame_Ramly FC NCAA Bracket Champ
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Re: T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
$56,000 in 1994. I imagine the Collins proof would sell for a lot more today.
psacollector All Star
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Re: T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
Quan, I believe it already has. If I am not mistaken, when Leland's sold the card for Sheen, didn't it get an outgrageous amount (like over $100k)?
With all the other six figure cards in our Hobby, this one should DEFINITELY be one, if it is not!
With all the other six figure cards in our Hobby, this one should DEFINITELY be one, if it is not!
scott elkins Inactive
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Re: T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
Speaking of nice proof cards, how about the Matty white cap in Mastro?
Re: T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
Ben 
The clarity on that Matty is incredible. First thing I noticed was the green background is slightly lower than whats found
on his actual T206 white cap release. On Matty's final draft the green background actually is right about where the side
ticks have been made on the proof. It's a beauty......
Tony
The clarity on that Matty is incredible. First thing I noticed was the green background is slightly lower than whats found
on his actual T206 white cap release. On Matty's final draft the green background actually is right about where the side
ticks have been made on the proof. It's a beauty......
Tony
Re: T206 Eddie Collins Proof Card
Interesting point, Tony. I hadn't noticed that about the background. You mentioned that the clarity on the Matty is incredible. I've noticed the same to be true for all t206 proofs  their clarity appears to be superior than that of their regularly issued counterparts. Any theories on why that may have been the case?
Here's my Mattern Proof next to a typical regular Mattern for comparison of clarity:
Here's my Mattern Proof next to a typical regular Mattern for comparison of clarity:
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