Full Count Vintage Baseball Card Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

+4
sabrjay
ItsOnlyGil
scott elkins
fisherboy7
8 posters

Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb back really a t206?

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Vote_lcap19%Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Vote_rcap 19% 
[ 4 ]
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Vote_lcap38%Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Vote_rcap 38% 
[ 8 ]
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Vote_lcap10%Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Vote_rcap 10% 
[ 2 ]
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Vote_lcap14%Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Vote_rcap 14% 
[ 3 ]
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Vote_lcap19%Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Vote_rcap 19% 
[ 4 ]
 
Total Votes : 21
 
 

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by fisherboy7 Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:29 am

vote and discuss.

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Ga_c1


Last edited by on Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
fisherboy7
fisherboy7
Admin
Admin

Posts : 4290
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue55 / 10055 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


http://www.imageevent.com/fisherboy7

Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Re: Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by scott elkins Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:29 am

I don't believe the Cobb/Cobb is a T206 card. The dead giveaway is the glossy front.

I do believe the Coupon Type I's and Red Cross Type I's ARE T206 backs however. I believe they were simply given other "designations" b/c they were issued in other series after T206's were issued (which are definitely different issues - just look at the blue captions).

scott elkins
Inactive

Posts : 581
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue8 / 1008 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Re: Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by ItsOnlyGil Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:32 am

I am not a t206 guy.
And I'm not sure what the "rules" are here for making this determination. For example:

I guess that the pictures used must be selected from a common starting pool of images.
Apparently different color inks and font types can be used on the card backs.

I don't see why that latitude should not be extended to the fronts. Specifically, if slightly different fonts were used, that really doesn't change anything, nor does different color fonts (or does it?).

Do all advertising companies have to be one of the ATC owned manufacturers? I do not see why that should be.

Heck, I wouldn't require the manufacturer to be a tobbacco maker, if he used images from the same pool, with about the same fonts, borders, card size, etc. He could be a candy maker, a food product producer, or whatever.

The set is the cards, not the manufacturer - or is it?
ItsOnlyGil
ItsOnlyGil
Retired
Retired

Posts : 1145
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue2 / 1002 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Re: Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by sabrjay Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:02 am

Generally, the manufacturer is the determining factor in deciding what a set is.

Burdick seems to place cards in sets according to their fronts. How else can you explain his e92 designation. There are 4 different manufacturers with 4 very distinct set of players for each. The same can be said for the t206 set. I doubt ATC placed different players with different brands to try and get smokers to try new brands. As witnessed with the SLer cards, they were generally issued with the brands from down South, so you can assume that players were placed with brands based on where they sold best.

It would be interesting to see what the best sellers were in various cities and then see what players were issued with those brands.

Jay

_________________
Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. When I do this at home I get arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.
sabrjay
sabrjay
Dunderhead
Dunderhead

Posts : 7817
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue25 / 10025 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


http://fullcountforum.com/

Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Re: Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by ItsOnlyGil Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:36 am

It seems to me that t206, like e121 are designations which can incorporate sets which are not currently assigned to them, or not, depending on collector preference. My current read on collector preference is to change nothing, and continue to put up with the xx - unc. designations, and other inadequacies.

I do not share this point of view. However, when I started to address the subject a couple of years ago, I got so much heat, that it was not worth the uphill effort.

Edited to add:
Yes, it would be interesting to coorelate tobacco product sales by region with players selected for those products.
And the 4 e92 sets along with People's Tobacco, e101, and perhaps the interplay with e90-1 and others is a bowl of spagetti which needs some sorting.
ItsOnlyGil
ItsOnlyGil
Retired
Retired

Posts : 1145
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue2 / 1002 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Re: Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by sabrjay Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:34 am

e92s are pretty obvious, especially Nadjas. Nadja was based in St Louis, hence all the St Louis players with Nadja backs.

Gill, I'm with you. Changes need to be made to the way vintage sets are designated. Yes, Burdick was a great pioneer in cataloguing cards. Contrary to sainthood bestowed upon him by collectors, that does not mean that he work was perfect and people should not be opposed to changes just because it is something different from what Burdick originally did.

The whole E, T, R, N, etc system is antiquated and many times makes no sense. We are better off just doing like Bob Lemke and SCD started doing, listing sets by manufacturer. This makes much more sense, not only from a common sense stand point, but also from a friendliness standpoint for people that don't know what they are looking at.

Image inherting a collection of cards not knowing what they were. If the catalogues listed sets by the Burdick system, then someone looking at a t206, e92, or other such set wouldn't know what set to look at in the catalogue.

You can change the system and still pay homage to Burdick and groundbreaking work he did.

Another of the inconsistancies of Burdick, why were Pirates listed as a t215? While most of the set is similar to type 1 Red Cross t215s, it was issued by a foriegn producer. So there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to what consitutes a new set for him. Would be great if he was still alive or someone knew what his thought process was.

Jay

_________________
Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. When I do this at home I get arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.
sabrjay
sabrjay
Dunderhead
Dunderhead

Posts : 7817
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue25 / 10025 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


http://fullcountforum.com/

Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Re: Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by bowlingshoeguy Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:45 am

Where's the option for salesman's sample? That has always been my theory.

Lee drunken
bowlingshoeguy
bowlingshoeguy
Sultan of the Cycle Back
Sultan of the Cycle Back

Posts : 3106
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue53 / 10053 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Re: Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by scott elkins Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:57 pm

Lee, you may very well be correct (that was my thought exactly several years ago - guess I still stick with it). With the very LIMITED quantities that survived AND the fact that five came from one source (who's relative was a store owner, who probably received the "samples" and simply saved them).

Then again, there aren't many Ty Cobb tobacco tins around either. Were these issued or samples as well? If these were issued (especially with the Cobb back card inside), then they DEFINITELY were NOT very popular, as there aren't many survivors of either. Maybe they were a "test issue" limited to the NC area or something and the test proved unpopular, as the brand was unable to compete with the bigger brands of the day?

scott elkins
Inactive

Posts : 581
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue8 / 1008 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Re: Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by sabrjay Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:30 pm

I don't remember exactly what type of tobacco was in the Cobb tin, but I seem to remember it was loose, like Polar Bear. If that's the case, then we should be seeing stains on some of the cards like we do on Polar Bear cards.

Jay

_________________
Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. When I do this at home I get arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.
sabrjay
sabrjay
Dunderhead
Dunderhead

Posts : 7817
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue25 / 10025 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


http://fullcountforum.com/

Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Re: Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by fisherboy7 Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:28 pm

I added the "salesman's sample" option for bowlingshoeguy afro

I think it's an interesting and plausible theory.
fisherboy7
fisherboy7
Admin
Admin

Posts : 4290
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue55 / 10055 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


http://www.imageevent.com/fisherboy7

Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty ty cobb

Post by crazylocomerk Tue Dec 25, 2007 5:59 pm

Fisherboy7 wrote:I added the "salesman's sample" option for bowlingshoeguy afro

I think it's an interesting and plausible theory.

That was my vote. It makes sense.
crazylocomerk
crazylocomerk
KOTTON King
KOTTON King

Posts : 2742
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue12 / 10012 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Is the T206 Cobb/Cobb back really a T206?

Post by Julie Vognar Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:22 am

Hi guys. I have never seen one myself, but Mark Macrae says that based on the physical card, it can't be part of the T206 set--the glossy front is only part of it. He had no opinion as to what it was (salesman's sample, a set made in Georgia, etc.), but did not feel it was part of any other regular printed set, either. It isn't a phony; it just isn't a T206, or a part of another set (besides its own).

End of report.
Julie Vognar
Julie Vognar
Minor Leaguer
Minor Leaguer

Posts : 7
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue0 / 1000 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Re: Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by sabrjay Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:27 pm

Good to see ya Julie.

Jay

_________________
Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. When I do this at home I get arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.
sabrjay
sabrjay
Dunderhead
Dunderhead

Posts : 7817
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue25 / 10025 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


http://fullcountforum.com/

Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Re: Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by scott elkins Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:17 pm

It is GREAT to see Julie here! I, for one, always enjoyed her posts on Net 54. Also, at least she doesn't have to worry about being harassed on this forum. The attacks on her by a few on Net 54 were uncalled for and something should have been done to those who were attacking her for no reason (ie: they should have been banned)! shooting

Julie - are you back into collecting these days? I hope so, as you are one of the nice people in the Hobby and your posts are always interesting to read! Anyway, again, it is great to see you posting and I hope you and your family had a wonderful holiday and everyone has a great new year as well. santa

scott elkins
Inactive

Posts : 581
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue8 / 1008 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Cobb, or me?

Post by Julie Vognar Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:06 am

No, in fact, I finally quit collecting J Suspect apanese cards as well. But I still like to yak about them.
Julie Vognar
Julie Vognar
Minor Leaguer
Minor Leaguer

Posts : 7
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue0 / 1000 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Re: Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by sabrjay Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:57 pm

Just make sure you shave that yak. They shed and the wooly hair really gums up the works. afro

Jay

_________________
Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. When I do this at home I get arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.
sabrjay
sabrjay
Dunderhead
Dunderhead

Posts : 7817
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue25 / 10025 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


http://fullcountforum.com/

Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Re: Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by scott elkins Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:55 pm

geek question Jay, aren't Yaks the favorite food for Yetis? Off Topic lol!

scott elkins
Inactive

Posts : 581
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue8 / 1008 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Re: Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by r337man Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:53 pm

Par usual I am going to be the minority on a chat. I guess that means I am usually wrong but hey someone has to be. I remember getting upset at Jay Miller during my PSA/Magie issue because I was on edge and all poor Jay was doing was being devil's advocate to try to help sort out the situation. We have since become very good friends. <P> Anyway, my opinion is the Cobb back is part of the T206 set. I am going off of the font set and color of the name and team on front with the image. I believe the red cross has a different font and actually a brown print color instead of black? I am way too lazy to get mine out. Welcome Julie! It is great to have you hear. I hesitate to be on the opposite side of Mark but I would be curious as to what his reasonings are of why the Cobb back is not a T206. Scott's statement is a good one, a T206 should not be real glossy so maybe I will be swayed over to the majority side. <P>Now you guys/gals are going to kill me! Nothing personal Jay but I much prefer Burdick's cataloging over Krause. I think the Krause book is a POS. I believe it could be good but there are many issues that I cannot find by alphabetical order. Or I should say, they use the first part sometimes and the 2nd part sometimes of a 2 part named issue. Example: George Close Candy is listed by Close, Berk Ross is listed by Berk. Also, I would like to see the front section strictly 1947 and older. Put the Topps and Bowman stuff in the back with the shiny stuff. <P>Please take it easy on me here, I am a bit fragile. Thanks Dan.
r337man
r337man
MVP
MVP

Posts : 433
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue4 / 1004 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Re: Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by sabrjay Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:02 am

We are as brutal as people would have you believe. My reputation of attacking new comers for no reason has been disproven here affraid

The glossy front and the lack of distribution as major factors in against it being a t206. The other major one is the fact that there was a small find of them, leading credence to salesmans sample theory.

Jay


Last edited by on Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:13 am; edited 1 time in total

_________________
Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. When I do this at home I get arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.
sabrjay
sabrjay
Dunderhead
Dunderhead

Posts : 7817
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue25 / 10025 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


http://fullcountforum.com/

Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Re: Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by r337man Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:16 am

I know u r a good guy Jay! Yes all valid points and the latter is very interesting. Robbie Lifson was happy!
r337man
r337man
MVP
MVP

Posts : 433
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue4 / 1004 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Re: Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by r337man Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:37 pm

Hi Jay, I slept on this and came up with this possible scenerio: Many T206's are found with the same backs in a group as Hunt's recent Drum find. People used the same brand tobacco usually. If the Ty Cobb brand tobacco only ever included 1 card and that person only used that tobacco, then it would make sense that 5 or 6 were found together. Just a thought my friend. <p>Hey, what ever happened to Mike and John from Full Count ? Dan.
r337man
r337man
MVP
MVP

Posts : 433
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue4 / 1004 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Re: Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by fisherboy7 Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:15 pm

Interestingly, the forum is nowhere near a consensus on this question yet. The mystery surrounding the Ty Cobb back lives on I guess.
fisherboy7
fisherboy7
Admin
Admin

Posts : 4290
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue55 / 10055 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


http://www.imageevent.com/fisherboy7

Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Re: Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by sabrjay Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:40 pm

Bump so new members can have the chance to vote if they missed this thread since it was on page 3

Jay - wondering where the Page 2 Girl is

_________________
Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. When I do this at home I get arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.
sabrjay
sabrjay
Dunderhead
Dunderhead

Posts : 7817
Trader Points :
Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Left_bar_bleue25 / 10025 / 100Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Right_bar_bleue


http://fullcountforum.com/

Back to top Go down

Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type? Empty Re: Is the Cobb/Cobb a legit t206 back type?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum