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New t205 error?

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New t205 error? Empty New t205 error?

Post by arandy Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:55 pm

I found this card on Lew Lipset Auctions . Could this possibly be the new "rarest" t205? Here is the link: http://www.oldjudge.com/auction/headliners/9/#b

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Post by sabrjay Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:00 pm

All Mathewson cards have this error, so it's nothing special. Now if someone finds one with 11 loses, that would be something

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Post by fisherboy7 Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:06 pm

You sure about that Jay? Check out Lew's description, I think it's a legit error.

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Post by arandy Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:09 pm

I think Ben is right because my mathewson has 11 loses on it.
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Post by sabrjay Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:20 pm

hmmm, I remember a long time ago on another board that someone brought a stat error on the back of the t205 Matty and everyone said that all the Matty's were that way, so it was no big deal.

My Matty is at SGC right now, so I'll have to wait for it to get back before I can check mine.

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New t205 error? Empty Here are a few other Matty backs...

Post by fisherboy7 Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:43 pm

New t205 error? Mattyb10New t205 error? Mattyb11
New t205 error? Mattyb12New t205 error? Mattyb13

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Post by sabrjay Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:48 pm

well, looks like if that was a 37-1 Matty back then, I guess everyone was wrong and the person has quite a find.

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Post by Jim Rivera cfc1909 Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:20 am

I am not 100% sure but I think this was talked about on 54 and the error is only on cycle backs. Is the card in lipset a cycle?
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Post by Jim Rivera cfc1909 Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:22 am

I just checked the link and it is a cycle. I think all cycles have this error. Note -I think Matty is rare with cycle in 205.
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Post by asoriano Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:23 am

Hi guys,

I believe this Mathewson "variation" can only be found on Cycle backs with a record of 37-1; the other backs (Sweet Caporal, Piedmont, Honest, American Beauty, Hassan, etc.) will correctly show his record of 37-11.

I'm not sure if this card is truly rarer than a Hobby No Stats, but you never know. Prior to this find, I believe the Wilhelm "suffered" was the most recent T205 brought to light.


Edited to add: Jim is correct, this card was discussed on N54 about eight or so months ago.
My best,

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Post by Jim Rivera cfc1909 Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:32 am

look on 54 Jan 25 2008 search for this date or cycle matty or new hobby discovery. Whoever is paying 7k plus is going tobe very unhappy when they figure out it is every cycle matty!
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Post by arandy Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:16 am

Does anyone know approximately how many Mathewson's exist with a Cycle back? I'm trying to get a feel for how scarce these cards are.
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Post by sabrjay Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:37 am

Cycle is a tougher back, but there is rarely a premium paid for them

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Post by cccc Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:38 am

sick if all cycle mattys have this back...wow.

besides that there are some real bargains i see in lipset...and only 10% bp.
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Post by bowlingshoeguy Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:35 am

I have owned 3 different Matty's with Cycle backs and all have the 37-1 backs. I guess if you hype an auction enough from a reputable dealer you can get an unreal realized price that the buyer will not be happy with in the future.

I have never seen a Matty Cycle with anything but the 37-1 Cycle back. The very first one I bought caught my attention. I mentioned to a few big timers and they were not impressed, I guess someone out there is impressed.

Not sure what happened to the scan of the third Matty but here are 2 of them.

New t205 error? T205ma10

Damn Bingo blotters:

New t205 error? T205ma11

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Post by sabrjay Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:20 am

Looks like the bottom Matty made a trip to the bingo parlor.

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Post by ItsOnlyGil Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:37 pm

The bingo Matty is going to wind up in Dr.Towley's hands sooner or later. There is really no harm in doing it, getting it graded, and then selling it with full disclosure (no doubt to someone who will resell it without full disclosure).
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Post by bowlingshoeguy Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:09 pm

I emailed Lew about the information and this is the response:

Hi Lee

Thanks for letting me know. I suspected that would be the case. Don't
think it changes much. Still fewer than Hoblitzell.

Sincerely

Lew

Kind of curious if you have never seen one before and you have one person tell you that they have owned 3 and you still say there are fewer than the Hoblitzell. In that case maybe each card with a Cycle back is tougher than the Hoblitzell.

Lee
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Post by cccc Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:27 pm

interesting lipset would think a cycle matty is tougher than the supposedly KING hobby no stat. i wonder if u do a poll on t205 collectors how many would have one and/or the other.

knowing nothing about the set and just thinking logically i would think since the hobby gets a HUGE premium every time it goes on auction there would be more cycle mattys....otherwise the scarcity is probably overrated.
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Post by phlflyer1 Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:56 pm

Definitely not as rare as the Hoblitzell no stats. I know of a couple of collectors (not me) who have multiple copies with at least one collector having > 10 examples themselves.

All Mattys with the Cycle back have this variation so there are plenty of copies out there despite the fact that Cycle is one of the tougher brand backs. Cycle is not tough on the order of Broadleaf, Drum or Hindu and Matty was one of the most popular players of his era so there are many copies of this card which have survived down through time.

I definitely think it is a legitimate variation but not worth a huge premium, similar to the Wilhelm Suffered/Suffe ed. Wilhelm is a short print so both versions are fairly expensive with the Suffered version being tougher and worth a moderate premium.

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Post by ItsOnlyGil Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:25 pm

How do you explain this statement: "Lot 9. T205 Christy Mathewson with statistical unknown error on back SGC 40 VG 3. Never seen before,..."?
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Post by Bosox Blair Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:59 am

Ummm - a certain somebody needs to cancel that lot right away and make full disclosure to all the bidders on that lot. He can re-list it in his next auction wth proper dsclosure and advise every bidder on this lot that is what is happening (assuming the owner wants to re-list it).

Cheers,

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Post by bowlingshoeguy Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:18 am

Well Blair, That would be the thing to do but the auction ended yesterday. I think this is a time when Mr. Lipset needs to step up and inform the buyer of the situation.

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Post by Bosox Blair Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:23 am

bowlingshoeguy wrote:Well Blair, That would be the thing to do but the auction ended yesterday. I think this is a time when Mr. Lipset needs to step up and inform the buyer of the situation.

Lee

Ahhhh yes - I missed that the auction was over...at a mere $9500 and change...yikes!

Yeah, that buyer should get full disclosure and right of rescission.

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Post by crazylocomerk Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:32 pm

Lee let Lipset know that this wasn't a 1 of 1 and he did nothing. At least with the other auction houses they would pull it, or if the auction was over, they'd let the buyer know. If he continues to do nothing, this makes him look bad. I personally will be staying away from his auctions.
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