T215 Red Cross Scarcity vs. Other "T" sets

I'm trying to finish my complete t-run...and still need t214, t215-2 and pirate and all t216's...it may take me quite a while...and a lot of cha-ching!

Wagner never played much 2B outside of a few games a year, so it must have been a mistake that was then corrected, as his cards come in both the 2B and SS.

jbonie wrote:Wagner never played much 2B outside of a few games a year, so it must have been a mistake that was then corrected, as his cards come in both the 2B and SS.

You are correct about him only playing a few games at 2nd base. The Wagner throwing and batting in T216's come with both designations, 2nd base and SS. T216's were issued between 1911-1916, so maybe depending on when the card was produced has something to do with the 2nd base designation.

I'm guessing that someone saw one of his few games at 2B and assumed he was a second baseman, only later to be told he was a shortstop. Of course, they didn't have baseball-reference.com back then to set them straight

In July 2007 there was a near set (96/97) of high grade Pirate cards auctioned off in Mastro. The majority of the cards in this find were graded SGC 80 and above and contained new additions to the checklist including Mathewson. The lot closed at $800,000.

Why has my beloved T330-2 Piedmont Art Stamps been left out of the discussions?

sorry lee...we're talking "cards"...not stamps here!

ullmandds wrote:sorry lee...we're talking "cards"...not stamps here!

Oh SNAP! Burn Lee.....BURN!

Lee likes the stamps because licking the backs gives him a thrill.

Jay

sabrjay wrote:Lee likes the stamps because licking the backs gives him a thrill.

Jay

That must taste horrible after all these years.....

Sooo...back to the topic....does anyone find it odd that the majority of the 96 card, $800k Pirate lot auctioned in Mastro in 2007 was graded SGC 80 and up, while other single Pirate cards (like the Goodwin and REA ones linked earlier in this thread) only graded AUT? Aren't all Pirate cards supposed to be "handcut"?

Is this a serious case of preferential treatment, or something else?

If the 96 cards are part of an original hoard, they may well have been cut at the factory and never issued to the public. The other cards may have been cut from promo or ad sheets.

Jay

fisherboy7 wrote:Sooo...back to the topic....does anyone find it odd that the majority of the 96 card, $800k Pirate lot in Mastro was graded SGC 80 and up, while other Pirate cards (like the Goodwin and REA ones linked earlier in this thread) only graded AUT? Aren't all Pirate cards supposed to be "handcut"?

Is this a serious case of preferential treatment, or something else?

I also find it odd. With the 2 recent sales:

1) REA's looks clean

2) But the Goodwin one looks hand cut (i.e. in the scan the top edge doesn't look like a clean edge)

sabrjay wrote:If the 96 cards are part of an original hoard, they may well have been cut at the factory and never issued to the public.

That seems like the most likely explanation. They were printed and cut, but never released to the public. Apparently these cards were meant for American soldiers serving overseas? Seems HIGHLY unlikely that those pristine looking cards ever saw the light of day. Probably didn't even leave the factory!

Thing is, the single AUT cards look just as pristine as the ones in the set....

I've never heard the hand cut theory myself...but...that doesn't mean anything! I had a chance to buy one at the 95' national but I mistook the 1500 price tag for $150...ooops!!! I remember that one being ex.nmt...but cant remember the player. There is also one that is severely miscut vertically that someone has in their collection...that looks handled...I think it sold for 6-7K a few years ago...it's quite striking as its miscut horizontally right through the middle of the card front and back.

Jay -there have been several large Drum finds so Uzit may be tougher than Drum at this point not the other way around.

I agree Pirate and Fireside are probably the toughest. I think VE belongs there. SCP just had a large t216 auction and only 1 VE. Lucky for me it was not Baltimore. I have never seen a Baltimore VE.I have seen several VE over the years but never a large or small find of them. There were a few on ebay about 6 years ago.

crazylocomerk wrote:

jbonie wrote:Wagner never played much 2B outside of a few games a year, so it must have been a mistake that was then corrected, as his cards come in both the 2B and SS.

You are correct about him only playing a few games at 2nd base. The Wagner throwing and batting in T216's come with both designations, 2nd base and SS. T216's were issued between 1911-1916, so maybe depending on when the card was produced has something to do with the 2nd base designation.

From what I have seen of the T216 set over the years, I do not believe
that the Wagner "ss" version (either pose) is available in either Mino or Kotton thick backs. Conversely, I do not believe that the Wagner "2b" version is available in the Kotton thin, and if a Virginia Extra Wagner were to exist, I do not believe that it would be a 2b either.

So, in summary, this is what I believe are the possible combinations:

1) Kotton thick - 2b only
2) Kotton thin - ss only
3) Mino - 2b only
4) Virginia Extra - ss only

Cannot prove it, as only a handful of each example exist for 2 and 3, and 4 may not even exist. However, this is what my gut tells me.

Similar for the Cobb, only one variation of the standing pose is found on Kotton thin.

rman444 wrote:
From what I have seen of the T216 set over the years, I do not believe
that the Wagner "ss" version (either pose) is available in either Mino or Kotton thick backs. Conversely, I do not believe that the Wagner "2b" version is available in the Kotton thin, and if a Virginia Extra Wagner were to exist, I do not believe that it would be a 2b either.

So, in summary, this is what I believe are the possible combinations:

1) Kotton thick - 2b only
2) Kotton thin - ss only
3) Mino - 2b only
4) Virginia Extra - ss only

Cannot prove it, as only a handful of each example exist for 2 and 3, and 4 may not even exist. However, this is what my gut tells me.

Similar for the Cobb, only one variation of the standing pose is found on Kotton thin.

Great observation Richard, and I agree with you on this assessment for both the Wagner variations, and the Cobb variations. I just wish I would have thought of it first . But seriously good call.

OK, you guys seem to be dismissing the Piedmont Art stamps, but what makes them any different then your so called cards that are really thin, other than the adhesive?

Lee

bowlingshoeguy wrote:OK, you guys seem to be dismissing the Piedmont Art stamps, but what makes them any different then your so called cards that are really thin, other than the adhesive?

No reason why we can't fit the T330-2's into our ranking. Personally I'd put it in the 5-7 level, in the same range as the t215 red crosses and t213-1 coupons. Would you agree Lee? Of course, this is another set where condition sensitivity is a HUGE issue.



1) t208 Cullivans Fireside
1a) T215 Pirate
2) T214 Victory
----------------------------(gap)
3) T216 Virginia Extra
3a) T217 Mono
4) T216 MINO
5) T215-1
6) T215-2 (blue script)
7) T213-1
7a)T209 color
8) T216 Kottons
9) T211 Red Sun
---------------------------(gap)
10) T213-3
10a) T209 b/w
---------------------------(gap)
11) T213-2

It has gotten to the point where you seem to only see between 10-12 stamps for sale each year. they do not seem to be an item that is bought and flipped. I am not even sure if anyone has a complete set. I am aware of one guy that has close to 100 different.

Lee