S74's with paper backs

I found a bunch of these silks with paper backing today on ebay. Do they carry an extra premium?



-Randy

they certainly do have a substantial premium over a silk missing the back. be careful of some of the silks on ebay now, they have been rebacked.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1218560788/last-1218564382/rebacked+s74%27s+on+ebay

Thanks for the info Andy. I'll keep my distance from those silks.

-Randy

I wonder if you could elaborate on the reback signs. I read your thread on net54 and I believe you said that ballplayer silks have no frame around the text on Old Mills, whereas Actresses do and maybe must have the frame. From this you concluded that these were bad, and someone even suggested that they were obvious. Pardon a noob's ignoance but why are these obvious--the frame/no frame distinction?

See I asked the question on net54 two years as to whether these silks were easily rebacked, and nobody really answered me except you. Your take at that time was that rebacking would be very difficult because of matching up the silk threads to the edge of the paper just right. You said you had seen only one crude attempt at rebacking. Now it would appear this seller is trying it on a much larger scale. Are his attempts crude or is it just the frame that gives these away?

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1143513892/last-1143513892/Re-+S74+question--just+making+sure

silks are not easily rebacked. this is the first larger group i have seen and honestly the only ones besides the cobb that i saw at the chicago national a few years ago. all the rebacked silks i have seen are obvious and i'm sure most collectors would realize this once the card is in hand.....maybe not from the scans without some further info.....

looking at the group on ebay, you will see that the silks do not "line up" with the cardboard backing.



this is a good example. normally, you will not see such heavy fraying on a silk that has had the paper backing on it all along (see top edge). also, note the width on the silk portion....it is short on the left border and long on the right border. this is not normal.

BUT, the biggest red flag is that the backs are on CHIP BOARD type cardboard. i have never seen a baseball player on a chip board type back. baseball player silk backs should be on a clean brown cardboard.....not "speckled" (see randy's example in this thread).

i believe that all actress silks (old mill, turkey red, and red sun) were issued with the chip board type backs. also, i believe that all actress silks (all three tobacco brands) have a frame around the text on the back.....i am not all that familiar with the actress series, but this has been my experience.

baseball silks never have the frame on old mill, red sun, or helmar backs. the frame may or may not be present on a baseball silk with a turkey red back. on all turkey red baseball silks, with or without the frame, the cardboard is still a pure cardboard.....never a chip board type back.

that being said.....the frame around the old mill is another giveaway.

i emailed the seller what i know and his response was "thanks for the information, i guess i got taken when i bought these years ago".

pretty lame, imo....as i feel he should revise the listings.....obviously.

i tried to articulate what i know, hopefully i am being clear. feel free to ask further questions.

I'll add a little to what Andy has stated (all of which I agree with).

The thing one needs to remember with this series is that they were printed & then cut with the silk on the paper (as evidenced by the half silk owned by Leon). Therefore the silk and cardboard backing should line up perfectly. The Matty is pretty obvious on the lower right that they don't. The biggest tell of a reback is with the vertical silk strands. With these S74's we nearly always see some fraying at top and bottom of the horizontal strands, however the vertical strands should extend all the way from the top to the bottom and be flush with the end of the cardboard. I have seen many rebacking jobs with these cards and they are pretty easy to tell with looking at the vertical strands.

-Rhett

"A very observant Ebayer pointed out that the paper back of the Christy Mathewson was not original. He said the one showing was of the actresses silks. After recovering from the shock, I checked for myself. While trying to take a short cut, I used the same silk showing the back. I only have 1 actress silk with the paper backing and that was the one I used.Christy has a baseball paper backing."

The seller has added this info in the Mathewson lot. He says this is the only one with an actress back.

-Randy

Curiouser and curioser. Thanks for the update Randy, and thanks for the info Andy and Rhett.