John and the Kevin mess

Kevin no emails were twisted or put out of order to make you look worse every comment is in order...once again more lies.

Just own up the only one twisting this is you, since the day I got this email string you have changed your story at least 3 times....I wonder why?

As for my M.O. and or being disapointed in Dan that's pretty rich guy....I think it's your M.O. that's in question in the hobby not ours we aren't the ones admiting or hinitng at illegal acts.

Also for the record the email was sent on to me from Dan at the request of Scott happy to forward you the full string.


So now you lied to make Scott feel better?

Just so I understand this you dilberatley lied about engaging in illegal acts to make make Scott Elkins feel better about attacks on Net54?

Getting who back for what? Hurting your feelings in the underprint thread? Yeah seems like a logical reason to admit to false illegal acts. Wow sounds like somebody has some sour grapes perhaps the collecting community didn't jump on the Kevin bandwagon with your findings in regards to Scott's underprint card and that pissed you off.

Please note you will not find one post from me in the "Underprint" thread on 54 amazing I got you mad not even posting...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1221049853/last-1221413956/Kevin+Saucier+Has+Spoken

"Didn't want to come across as an ass or a "blowhard", just always thought those overprints were fake (as well as stamps) but never really made my suspicions public." LOL

Yeah and I'm the piece of work.

My opinion on the matter is this. I think everyone knows the background of the people involved, they have all drawn their opinions at this point and I doubt any will be changed. At this point I feel nothing can be said by any of the parties that is going to change anything.

I just hope that all participants continue contributing since I believe everyone involved has something to offer (my opinion, I understand).



Lee

Why dearest Lee, that was very well stated, I concur. Dan.

I have not taken the time to read all the background on this but from what I can read:

1.I think this is a lot of ado about nothing

2. I think Kevin is just blowing off steam in a private e-mail. Not for one minute do I believe that Kevin would place altered cards in someone elses collection.

3.I consider Kevin one of the leading card experts in the country and think as highly of him now as I did in the past

4.I don't believe that private e-mails should be posted on a public message board.

5.You have a group of collectors on network 54 that do not like graded cards and in many cases the people that collect them. In their view, a fair amount of the cards are altered and those that buy them are buying plastic. On the flip side they believe they have the skills because they can feel the card outside the holder to detect alterations. Their knowledge next to Kevin is like a nursery schooler compared with someone who has a PHD.

6.Kevin is not popular and people want to pile on but I am not one of them I believe in him and what he is trying to do for the hobby.

Hang in there Kevin.

Jim

Jim

What are you basing number 3 on Jim?

Ah PSA Jim, your #5 is comical.

take care
dan

4.I don't believe that private e-mails should be posted on a public message board.

No worries about that happening. We will be very strict about it. The only way an email will be allowed to be posted is if it is positive. There may be an exception somewhere down the line, but right now we don't foresee it.

Jay

I agree with #4 as well but I believe that permission was asked by John on the Net54 board but I could be wrong.

Jay, I love that statement at the bottom of your post!!!!

dan

Thanks Dan. That's a sig line I came up with over 15 years ago. There was a guy that used to run a web site with what he felt were the greatest sig lines of all time and he asked permission to use it

Jay

Well there is good news and bad news to that Jay!!

The good news is, I absolutely loved it when I read it this morning.

The bad news is, I didn't see it til this morning!!! ugh!!!

How blind and dumb I am

Dan

Back to the topic of the thread;

This is for Dan, John and everyone else that has already condemned Kevin to hell for what is at the moment a thought crime, you have the same disdain for those that have publicly admitted to altering cards and placing them in other people's collections?

The exact case being Doug Allen and the gang from Mastro/Legendary. Doug admitted publicly that Mastro Auctions altered cards before putting them into their auction. Do you have the same lack of respect and disdain for him and the people at Legendary that were around when Doug admitted this?

Mastro Auctions/Legadary (I make no distinction between the two because other than the removal of Bill Mastro, nothing has changed there. Not even the parent company that owns Legendary) did exactly what Kevin has only tallked about, placed alterede cards in somene else's collection.

Why do they seem to get off the hook, yet people are ready to put Kevin's head on a pike?

Please spare me the "they only 'prepared' cards". Undisclosed alterations are bad in my book even if some think that spooning and other so called "minor alterations" are OK. There is probably a 50-50 split on where it's OK or not.

Jay

I agree Jay though I never saw where Doug stated that but enough people said he did so I believe it. Yes I agree that isn't right but I will make 1 distinction. Kevin's comments seemed to be driven by anger.

I haven't condemened Kevin to death.

I just don't believe he should even be thinking along those lines if he is honestly going to work towards being the expert in detecting alterations.

and no, Doug and company should not be fixing up cards for auction either.

Happy Sunday Evening
Dan

But which is worse, the anger driven statement of Kevin where he wants to target a few select individuals, or someone like Chan, Mastro/Legendary, et al that will target anyone?

As I've mentioned, I find the nonselective crime much more worrisome because the continued until caught. Someone with Kevin's MO would stop once they have gotten all their targets.

Mastro "prepared" cards up until Doug's public admission. The backlash was strong enough that eventually stated that Mastro would no longer "prepare" cards grading and auction. I hope they have kept their word on this, but I'm not betting my collection on it.

Jay

The reason is that some people are outraged because they thought they were the victims of the thought crime or potential real crime. I think that unnerved a lot of people. Can't say I blame them for getting off kilter for a little bit, but I also think things have gone too far.

I am going to say Chan is by far the worst. After being caught, he still tried to promote his fake packs in his apology.

That one is tough to beat!

I actually have no issue with removing creases from cards nor do I consider cards being soaked in tap water doctoring so I really need to know exactly what the Mastro clan did to fix up cards.

and Kevin may not have done anything, actually I am hoping that is the case. I just think it is kinda creepy that he is even thinking like that while he is working himself towards being the known expert in card alterations.

I think you and I aren't too far off on this, you probably need to talk to John.

Chan was premeditated horror!

Dan

sabrjay wrote:Back to the topic of the thread;

This is for Dan, John and everyone else that has already condemned Kevin to hell for what is at the moment a thought crime, you have the same disdain for those that have publicly admitted to altering cards and placing them in other people's collections?

The exact case being Doug Allen and the gang from Mastro/Legendary. Doug admitted publicly that Mastro Auctions altered cards before putting them into their auction. Do you have the same lack of respect and disdain for him and the people at Legendary that were around when Doug admitted this?

Jay

Jay happy to answer you feel the same and have little respect for anyone caught screwing people or caught discussing screwing folks.

I think I've called Mr. Allen/Mastro out once before...in case you forgot. This was not a pick on Kevin angle sorry.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1209785082/last-1212263733/A+Collector%2C+Mastro%2C+PSA+%26amp%3B+Our+Beloved+Hobby

I allso think your being a bit over the top....nobody is wishing Kevin to hell....at least I'm not.

I just have lost all respect for Kevin and the person who should be the most upset is Kevin at himself for making such a foolish comment.

Time will tell if it was truly just something said in poor taste or something else much much worse.

Cheers,

John

Just to slightly expand as I was in Europe when I wrote my initial comment.

I think Kevin was blowing off steam, Kevin was acting a bit like a big shot and Kevin has no intention now or in the future of altering cards. ....and most importantly this was a private e-mail.

Incredible to me that a bunch of people who don't even know Kevin have made the comments they did.

I think its obvious from comments he has made in the past that Wonka doesn't like Kevin but I think Kevin's intentions are good and he has done and will continue to do positive things for the hobby in his skill at detecting alterations.

They probably wany to stay out but I would be willing to bet that King and Anthony feel the way I do....and I have it on good source that Rob Lifson does as well.

Jim