What will the REA t206 Doyle gor for?

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What will the REA t206 Doyle gor for?

Post by sabrjay on Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:47 pm

The t206 Doyle variation in the rEa auction is already at $140k. Any guesses as to what this card will sell for? It probably catapults anyone near the top of the set registry to #1 with this card. Probably a few PSA registry whores chasing it too so they can reslab it in hopes of taking the #1 spot there.

Not sure it'll crack $250k, but will probably be around $200k

REA Doyle

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Re: What will the REA t206 Doyle gor for?

Post by ullmandds on Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:04 pm

Jay...I think it'll end between 200-250K. I'd much rather have a wags...or a plank! But I guess whomever wins this card...most likely already has those guys! bow
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Re: What will the REA t206 Doyle gor for?

Post by terjung on Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:31 pm

I see this card as one that is "for the hard core T206 collector" who feels he (or she) must complete it. The Wagner is a card that will make even the non-collector drool. The plank can to a lesser extent as part of the former "Big 3" with Wagner and the '33 Goudey Lajoie. Aside from those pre-war freaks who are aware of this card's true scarcity, you will get a lot of blank stares. Obviously, one has to have the means to chase such a card... that goes without saying.

What will it go for? It is already higher than I expected it to go (including the juice). As this point, however, I agree that the $200K to $250K range is where it looks like it will end up.
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The Big One .....

Post by Potomac Yank on Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:53 pm

The hobby, and the business end of same, is just beginning to understand the real scarcity of the T206 Slow Joe Doyle error.
As far as I am concerned, the T206 Wagner is not only a tough card, it's also THE symbol of the hobby. ..... But!
As far as scarcity goes ... It's not in the same league as the Slow Joe Doyle error card.
So much so, that it is still The Big Three ... plus The Big One.

Jay, as for your question of what will the Charlie Conlon Doyle error go for ... I haven't the foggiest idea, like I said, the hobby/business is just beginning to recognize the scarcity.
We have in our midst a small handful of collectors that are not concerned with depressions, and recessions. (not me) Smile ... but like me, we're from the school of if we see a name on a check list, and we don't have that card ... the set is INCOMPLETE.
God forbid we have a couple of T206 set builders in the fray ... the numbers might be interesting.

Always remember, if there were not Rolls Royce buyers ... they wouldn't make them. Wink

Joe

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Re: What will the REA t206 Doyle gor for?

Post by sabrjay on Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:43 pm

Joe, count me in that old school of "if it is on the checklist, then the set is incomplete without it."

I have a mutual friend in mind that has me wondering if he will be pursuing this card for his collection as he thinks like us when it comes to sets. I know he generally doesn't buy cards through major auctions, but he may have to make an exception if he wants to complete his set.

Jay

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Re: What will the REA t206 Doyle gor for?

Post by Potomac Yank on Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:04 am

Jay, whoever that friend is that might be thinking of the Doyle, I wish him luck.
The scarcity of that card, changes whatever usual strategy one may have in obtaining cards.
It's the kind of card that you get from whatever source offers it.
That is, providing that you have the gelt, pesos, deinerum, scheckels, or a nearby blood bank that one could sell whatever blood left.

Now you have me thinking ... what will that number be?
It's not like you see that card at every show, and auction.

Good question Jay. Smile

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Just got back from visiting the Doyle & Wagner.

Post by Potomac Yank on Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:59 am

Any Collector/Dealer/Speculator will agree, that outside of condition, card prices are based on supply and demand.

Here we have a creased PR/FR Wagner, (wish I had it. Smile ) a card that can be found in most major auctions.

Then we have a very nice VG/EX Doyle, a card with a scarcity that is just being discovered, and a card that no more than two years ago, two well known dealers were debating the reality of the Doyle error, on a forum. ... It was a fun read.Smile

At the moment, the number on the Wagner is twice the amount the number of the Doyle.
Remember, we're talking about the Wagner, a tough card, and the symbol of the hobby ... But, the Doyle has the strongest case of Supply & Demand by a mile!

If you've got the bread you can always get a Wagner, but can you always get a Doyle? Smile

What time does the Blood Bank open?

Joe

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Re: What will the REA t206 Doyle gor for?

Post by sabrjay on Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:31 pm

Isn't Wagner population more like 10 times that of the Doyle? I'm not sure how many Doyles are legit, but I'm guessing not more than 4 or 5 if that. 10 to 1 is putting Wagner count at 50, but I'm not sure what the consensus is now. I know back in the late 80s I was with a few other long time collector/dealers and we could come up 47 different Wagners that we knew about. I've heard guesses that there may be has many as 80 or 90 Wagners out there, but I really doubt that.

Jay

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Re: What will the REA t206 Doyle gor for?

Post by r337man on Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:48 pm

The Doyle is not just being discovered. It was discovered in the late 1970s when Larry Fritcsh got 1. If you will look back in the old Trader Speaks magazines you will see Larry advertising that he is buying all Doyle hands over head T206 cards. He was trying to find another. Bill Huggins also got one in a collection in the late 1980s or early 90s. This is fact and was known throughout the hobby by hobbyist during that time.

The Doyle is neat because it is a true variation or error. Not like the scrap misprints or lack of color cards from the T206 set.

If 2 of the whales want it, it easily bring $500K.

There just aren't many opportunities to own one, it is the most scarce card in the set.

Dan
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Re: What will the REA t206 Doyle gor for?

Post by sabrjay on Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:13 pm

If memory serves me right Olberman had bought the Doyle that SGC later decertified. If he doesn't have one yet, you can bet that he is probably going to be going strong for it.

Dan is right about Fritsch. He also had ads in SGC too. I remember seeing those ads and thinking something was up that someone would be wanting this particular card since it wasn't tough. Didn't make sense it was a family member either since they would have wanted all poses, not just one.

Jay

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The familiar different card .....

Post by Potomac Yank on Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:30 pm

"The hobby, and the business end of same, is just beginning to understand the real scarcity of the T206 Slow Joe Doyle error."

.
.

The above is the first line to my first post.

I should have underlined the word understand.
Like the printers did with the Slow Joe Doyle error ... I guess I'm keeping in form with them, with MY error of OMMISSION. Smile

Ladies, and Gentlemen of the hobby/business congregation:
Here is the batting order to the Slow Joe Doyle Caper.

1. In 1980, Larry Fritsch, (RIP) discovered a familiar card, that looked different for some reason.
He discovered it not too long after Bill Heitman's "The Monster" was published.

2. Like you folks have stated, he advertised in the hobby publications.
Larry was not only a good, and nice guy, he was also at the top of his game, ... he was not about to tip his hand ... he advertised for ALL Doyle cards.
Even with that edge, he was never able to pick up what he was looking for from 1980 till .....

3. Somewhere around May of 1987, Huggins had an auction in SCD with a familiar, but different looking card.
For some reason, I recall watching that auction with interest.
Larry won it ... and it was then that he outed the Doyle error card by claiming that he had inadvertently found one back in 1980. ... he now had two.

4. 1987 was my first trip to Cooperstown, it was Catfish Hunter's induction.
It was also the first, and only year of the Larry Fritsch museum, and I had the pleasure of meeting him.
Going through the museum, and I went through it twice:

To a collector ..... It was like being in 7th Heaven!

To a flipper ..... It was like being at Ft Knox!

It's where I saw my first Doyle. ... and the exhibit, was just a portion of Larry's collection.

5. The 1987 National was at Atlantic City, and one of my favorites Lew Lipset lucked out with a walk in ... yup, you guessed it ... the newly outed familiar different card.
It was consigned, and it was part his next auction ... the list of the poker players in that lot, would blow your mind.

6. 1990, The Dr Koos Caper.
I have made boo boo's in my life, and although it was corrected, this was one of them.

Simply stated, it was a case of a way to complete a T206 set.
Going against my instincts, and wanting to believe the unbelievable.
It started on Memorial Day weekend, and ended just before Labor Day 1990.
The 1990 National was in Texas, I went there to alert the dealers about Danny Dupchek.
Mark Macrae, was there with me, and Lew Lipset, Larry Fritsch, Herman Kaufman were all part of the alert.
The dealers that I spoke to there, are all great guys, but as it turned out, they were more interested in attending the then annual Hawaiian shindig.
Because they failed to band together against Dr Koo's ... he was able to come back into their lives later.

It was during that period that I got to meet Charlie Conlon ... he told me that he also has a Doyle.
Whenever we met, at whatever show, one of us would always ask "Do you still have your Doyle?" ... and we would smile Smile .
RIP Charlie ..... you'll be missed by many.

Joe

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Re: What will the REA t206 Doyle gor for?

Post by r337man on Fri May 01, 2009 12:15 pm

Awsome information Joe and with exact dates!! I am impressed as your memory way out lasts mine. Luckily, I missed out on meeting Dr. Koos.
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Today is the day .....

Post by Potomac Yank on Sat May 02, 2009 12:22 pm

Today is the day that we'll find out if two Whales will go toe to toe for Slow Joe.

If not, and this is going to sound crazy ... someone will be getting a deal on the Doyle. ... simply based on what I've said about supply and demand.
It's all simple, but expensive math. Shocked

I don't think it will happen today, but the day will come when the Doyle will out draw the Wagner.

Like I've said before, they wouldn't make Rolls Royce, if they didn't have the buyers to buy them.

I have a feeling that there will be more than Jay, Dan and I, watching this game from the stands. Smile ... Any one else?

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Re: What will the REA t206 Doyle gor for?

Post by Bosox Blair on Sun May 03, 2009 1:47 am

It is at $190K (before the 17.5%) right now, but there's likely a couple hours of bidding left...

Cheers,
Blair
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Re: What will the REA t206 Doyle gor for?

Post by jmk59 on Sun May 03, 2009 2:40 am

I am definitely watching it with interest. Wow. Anyone know why it is buried back as Lot 891 and not a featured lot? It's not even the last lot or the first lot of a second day or anything like that. I would think this one would have been front and center. scratch

J
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Re: What will the REA t206 Doyle gor for?

Post by sabrjay on Sun May 03, 2009 4:15 am

I think Conlon's collections was a late arrival, but given the flexibility of today's printing process I would think that putting it anywhere in the auction wouldn't be too much trouble no matter how close to press time it is.

Maybe Rob can chime in after things slow down and he can explain how he goes about selecting where each lot will be slotted.

Jay

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Over $200K?

Post by Tao_moko on Sun May 03, 2009 12:59 pm

Anyone know the final bid? Last I saw was $190K and there was time left.

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Re: What will the REA t206 Doyle gor for?

Post by sabrjay on Sun May 03, 2009 1:06 pm

It closed at $280k + buyer premium.

Jay

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Wow!

Post by Tao_moko on Sun May 03, 2009 1:21 pm

That's awesome. It was a really nice looking example too and now we know that Slow Joe is closing in on Hans. The problem will be that there's only a handful to pass around to run the price up so unless another legit surfaces we might not see one auction again for a while.

I thought about taking a loan against my rental property for some of the T lots that went surprisingly low. I missed out and will have to wait till next time.

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