Need answers on a blank back t205

Hi,

While searching Mastro Auctions I ran across this card.




The description says that it is a handcut blank t205. My question is why is it handcut? Are they coming up with an excuse for why it looks trimmed?

The other thing that I wanted to know is could this just be a doctored card that somebody took the ink off of?

-Randy

Without actually seeing the card, I can't say anything definitive, but another possibility is that the card is skinned. Kevin S. might have some better insight into this.

Jay

Here's the link.

arandy wrote:The other thing that I wanted to know is could this just be a doctored card that somebody took the ink off of?

I think the likelihood of that is extremely small. If the card has been tampered with, it's more likely that it was skinned as Jay said. In that case, the thing to look for is a rough texture on the back. But my feeling is that it's a legit blank backed t205. They are very tough but do show up from time to time. I used to own a Carrigan blank back t205 myself.

I was thinking this was a proof card. Though, I've never seen a proof t205.

-Randy

From the little shop of horrors...

Skinned (actually it's peeled) would show up as a rough ueven back. Although this can be smoothed out, it would still be somewhat rough in spots. This one looks too smooth for that.

True skinning is typically done to thicker layered stock cards like Goudey's. As collectors we should get in the habit of referring to thin stock cards with false blank backs as being "peeled."

Removing the ink from the back only is very difficult (close to but not impossible) without harming the front as well. Also depends on the colors used.

Ah...but there is the classic rebacking, which is the term used but may not be what is actually done to the card . A new technique takes tons of skill and a crazy amount of steps but when done correctly (50/50 shot) you just can't tell. It is seamless, stainless, has vintage cuts and can soak without damage. It would look like the T205. Doubt that has been done here though.

And yes, "hand-cut" is a good play on words to get around a trimmed card.

As said in an earlier post, it would need to be seen in person to be certain.

Just my 2 cents!

arandy wrote:I was thinking this was a proof card. Though, I've never seen a proof t205.

People like to throw around the term "proof" pretty loosely. This one isn't a proof, just a blank backed t205. Typically what you'll see on a proof are cross hatching marks on all four borders, like on a T206 or T3 proof. Proofs are 1/1 test issues that used cross hatchings for alignment of the colors to make sure everything looked right before putting the card into mass production. Some t206 proofs have the player and team caption while others do not.

ALL proofs are blank backed, but NOT all blanked back cards are proofs. I've never seen, nor heard of, a T205 proof before...but my guess is that that they existed and were destroyed at the factory.

Here's a scan of my t206 proof for reference (apologies for the redundancy, I've shown this card many times before):

The hand cut card is on thinner stock and came from an advertising display for the tobacco company!

Art Tatum wrote:The hand cut card is on thinner stock and came from an advertising display for the tobacco company!

Another possibility that I hadn't considered. Wouldn't a full, uncut t205 ad sheet be a sight to behold!

Like others have been saying, this is more than likely not a proof, just a blank-backed card. These are very tough to come by but do exist for a good portion of the more popular "t" sets. I've seen t204s with blank backs (heck, even a blank front!!), t206s, t205s, 1909 Obaks and t207s. I've seen more t207s show up with a blank back than these other issues though.

A couple reasons for this -

1. The card was part of a sheet that simply missed the "pass" during the printing process that would have added the back print to the card. This would be similar to cards that miss "color passes" that we've all seen in various sets (ie...t206, t210, e90-3, e94, etc...) where a specific card that you normally find with a green background, for example, all of a sudden shows up with a bright blue one.

2. The card, if made from a different stock, could have simply been a part of an advertising sheet, a "notebook", a box or anything else that had the fronts of the cards printed on it. These would all be handcut variants of the actual issue. These show up every now and again from a wide variety of different sets. I've seen handcut e95s, e97s, e93s, n162s, e107s, Obaks, and on and on....

Either way, they're neat cards to collect!

Thanks for all the help. I did have one final question. How can you tell if this is a genuine card and not from a notebook cover?

-Randy

I don't think I have ever seen a T205 from a notebook cover.

I have never seen a notebook either. From the photos, it looks like it is made of the same type of card stock that genuine t205's are made of. I think it's real bt trimmed.

-Randy