"Advanced collectors": what are they? do they even exist?

This thread is partially inspired by the rants Pete used to post about the unnecessary verbiage in auction catalog descriptions. However, he seems to have mellowed since acquiring the Lowdermilk, and would not be surprised if he had the auction description gloriously framed and included amongst his collection!

From time-to-time in my auction catalogs I see reference to the mythical "advanced collector". Such as "would rightly find itself in the collection of any advanced collector" and many variations of such.

Do advanced collectors exist, or is this just a clever manufactured marketing ploy by auction houses to play upon our vanity and get us to bid out of sheer ego?

If this is the case, I am immediately reminded of the film "Searching for Bobby Fischer", in which the child chess prodigy acquires "master chess points" from his teacher, played by Ben Kingsley, to acquire a "grand master certificate" of something of the like. SPOILER ALERT: the child is later crushed when Kingsley produces several dozen of the ubiquitous "grand master certificates" from his briefcase, indicating that it is just a manufactured title that is ubiquitous in nature and can be given to anyone, and is not the ellusive prize and title the child dreamed of earning.

However, if they do exist, what constitutes one?

i have NOT mellowed!!!!

In my opinion...an advanced collector is one who has more than just a general knowledge on many issues...one who is familiar with the nuances of most sets...gained over many years of collecting experience...believes there is life beyond T206...33 Goudey...and 52Topps.

In this regard...I consider myself somewhat of an "advanced" collector in that I seek out scarce, extra-ordinary issues you just don't see every day...as opposed to the garden variety than can be obtained on ebay any time of the day.

On the other hand...it is also a way to make us collectors feel special!

I still do not read most auction descriptions because they make me sick!

i refer to them as advanced age collectors. the knowledge that used to take 20-30 years to acquire and build through experience takes about a summer googling nowaday with dedication.

ullmandds wrote:i have NOT mellowed!!!!

I stand corrected.

Or, should I say... My opinion has been slightly altered in a way that does not deflect from the stunning appeal of my original opinion and should not easily be passed over.

Nice Chris...I wish my collection were as focused as yours!!!!

The term "advanced collector" is a way to make fun of t206 collectors without them knowing it.

I've always thought the term was just plain pompous.

c'mon, Brian...you are DEFINITELY...an advanced collector!!!!!1

An "Advanced Collector" would be like an "Advanced Placement Student". It is made to make the student feel special, in a non-corrective format. Sure, the high school may teach US History but is it AP US History? Which made me think there are things in this class that they are not telling the others. Untrue, but necessary to maintain the appearance of superiority. It is an ego trip for those who wish to hobble on this crutch...

ullmandds wrote:c'mon, Brian...you are DEFINITELY...an advanced collector!!!!!1

Thanks, ... I think.

... unless you are calling me pompous. If so, then ...

What I meant was that you have a great collection of not T206's!

I would define an advanced collector as someone who is very knowledgeable about each set and seeks rare variations of cards, often at the expense of condition. So they are less concerned with the aesthetics and condition of the card than they are with its rarity.

Rarity is certainly a factor in price but overall I agree with others that the overall notion is snobby since it creates a hierarchy of collectors and heaven forbid if your opinion diverges from the advanced collectors.

For example, I expressed the sentimenet in the past that the rarity rankings for HOFers in the OJ book may be slightly askew. There were many who replied that the rankings must be correct because they were created by advanced collectors.

I would consider Jay an advanced collector but none of the other regular posters on the board, just because of his vast knowledge of the hobby, even if he can't afford advanced cards. Pete is trying to be an advanced collector, but just buying cards an advanced collector would want does not make one an advanced collector; there must be the prerequisite knowledge that Pete lacks. Sorry Pete ;-)

jbonie wrote:For example, I expressed the sentimenet in the past that the rarity rankings for HOFers in the OJ book may be slightly askew. There were many who replied that the rankings must be correct because they were created by advanced collectors.

I remember that thread. That went south in a heartbeat!

i think we've had a few threads here and there about collectors that have infinite knowledge about certain sets, or era. jay miller would certainly fit that criteria about 19th cent and certainly an expert in that area, but i wouldn't come to him for caramel advice. advanced supreme final boss grandmaster collector with guacamole and bacon to me would be someone like lipset or macrae, who have complete encyclopediac knowledge about 19th century on up to postwar. i also have alot of respect for brockelman in all areas. there are alot of experts in the hobby in specific areas that can be a wealth of information when you're stuck.

i would not consider someone who collects a niche set like boston garters or e125 die cuts to be an "advanced collector", just a wacko who likes to collect unknown sets.

BigGuy219 wrote:

jbonie wrote:For example, I expressed the sentimenet in the past that the rarity rankings for HOFers in the OJ book may be slightly askew. There were many who replied that the rankings must be correct because they were created by advanced collectors.

I remember that thread. That went south in a heartbeat!

That's because if you question the dogma of the advanced collectors, you will face violent resistance. I am a Hobby Heretic

(and proud of it)

Some times the heretics are ahead of their time. I remember back in the 80s when I got bored with t206s and decided to go after all the backs including factory variations. I told that I was stupid, silly, crazy, etc because no one cared beyond the basic backs. I was among the first to recognize that the Piedmont factory 42 was a very tough variation and was met with a resounding "so what". Now back variations are all the craze.

Aww, man.

I could have been an advanced collector according to Bill Goodwin for under $2,000.

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=23627

On the other hand, I guess Todd is an advanced collector?

advanced collectors = people that probably spend too much $ in the hobby

BigGuy219 wrote:or is this just a clever manufactured marketing ploy by auction houses to play upon our vanity and get us to bid out of sheer ego?

Yes.

Trust me, that comment is not to attract the knowledgable...it is to attract big wallets to make big bids.

Bosox Blair wrote:
Trust me, that comment is not to attract the knowledgable...it is to attract big wallets to make big bids.

Very true. An advanced collector wouldn't need to be told that something will fit nicely into their collection.

jbonie wrote:
I would consider Jay an advanced collector but none of the other regular posters on the board, just because of his vast knowledge of the hobby, even if he can't afford advanced cards.

I'm flattered but I am far from the only regular that should be considered an advanced collector. Most of the original members of this board would fall into that category and it's the reason we are here.

If there is such a thing as an "advanced collector" shouldn't the opposite be true, and there are many more "remedial collectors" out there? ... and if so, what would their qualifications be?

To me, advanced collector has nothing to do with money; rather it's a combination of knowledge and experience. It's not some exclusive group of Richy Riches....guys like Andy Cook and Tim Newcomb who have put together a whole bunch of prewar sets in off grade, the bargain hunters, traders, and longtime hoarders, are the true advanced collectors in my eyes.

I'm in.

Not sure of the intention. However, two words, "advanced," and "collector." To the extent any meaning is intended, here goes. Advanced implies person has all the lesser or easier cards of the related issue(s) or series. Collector implies person has the sense to distinquish obtaining an item as a fit to a collection rather than aimless accumulating or hoarding. (Clearly, I am not an advanced collector)

In context of use by an auction firm, they are trying to connect with, increase excitement of, and manipulate any potential buyers. Advanced collector means someone with $$$ who can be persauded to bid and increase their bid. Ahhh. Oh, the vanity.

In context of use in an obit., well, if I had a fine collection of something, I'd prefer to be remembered for it as either an "expert" or "fool," or both, due to my habit, knowledge and/or appreciation.