will this e103 wagner make it back into an sgc holder?

oh yea i was interested in this wagner too...before i re-subscribe to VCP tonight and found out it was the same SGC10 from awhile ago...but with some cleaning etc. not sure if it was just some good ole H2O or something else but it looks alot better...so u guys think it would cross back into an SGC holder?

if only water it would cross for sure imo (although i don't even agree with that practice to enhance a card...)

If this is the same card, it looks like there also might have been some re-coloring. The color loss to the left of Honus' face is gone now, and suspiciously, there is now red in roughly that same spot on the reverse (bleed through of whatever was used to re-color?)

I think there are are a couple good reasons to steer away from that card...

blair...good eye. it think the card was pretty sweet in the sgc holder...what a shame!!!

I wonder how the red dot appeared on the reverse?

blair,

i thought the red dot could've been hidden under that glue/paste all those years...but it's kind of a curious coincidence where the dot is in comparison with that spot on the front that's now gone....not sure if it was a printer mark/color rub/paper loss but you have to be really stupid (and greedy) to try and color that red in.

yeesh...more proof that the cheeto eaters PSA are actually monkeys. How that red dot doesn't send up a red flag is beyond me.

Jay

even with the somewhat small scan it's easy to see where the color was added...it looks like a nice color match but I can't imagine under black light it would not fluoresce!

ullmandds wrote:what a shame!!!

True dat. That card is in the Top 5 on my current want list. I would've been very content with the SGC 10.

So guys - tell me about the E103 set. I've thought long and hard about making a run at it for a while. I have a few of the cards already, but not the big guns (Wags, Cobb, Laj, Matty, etc). How difficult is this?

yes sadly i will also have to write this particular card off...was going to offer the seller 3.5k before i knew it was in the sgc holder. he got it for about that much and put all that "work" into so i'm guessing he wants at least 4.5k

the e103 is not hard hard...u can put together about 10-12 cards per year imo...the only problem is they will mostly be in crappy condition, and with the red background it won't be that attractive. not sure why e103s have some of the worst-conditioned caramels out there (ratio-wise to their pop).

Humm...dunno? I'll play devils advocate here.

I find it hard to believe that someone would be so stupid as to recolor that card...and even harder to believe PSA would not catch it. A recolor is very easy to spot, even for the most junior card grader.

A few possible reasons for the now scar free front; Many small blemishes can seem to disappear when a card is scanned and resized smaller. The SGC scan could have had scratches on the slab or an unclean scan surface....or all of the above.

My guess is it was almost certainly soaked. That's very easy for a quick clean-up and is low risk.

Not sure why some of those small front stains would still be there (perhaps I should look again - Edited yep, looks like they are gone) and who knows what the red dot thing in the back is. Sure does look like a soak through but how could PSA miss a recolor and a bleed to the back that noticeable? Besides lining it up, using the side weld mark and the top rail as reference points, would leave the bleed well below the lip and at the border edge...far from the supposed recolor area. That one has me scratching my head or maybe I'm doing this too late and lined it up wrong.




Would be a neat card to look at in-hand. Oddly enough, sometimes I say or think that and the card will end up in my possession for an examination and opinion. That's always kinda' cool.

Just my thoughts.

canjond wrote:So guys - tell me about the E103 set. I've thought long and hard about making a run at it for a while. I have a few of the cards already, but not the big guns (Wags, Cobb, Laj, Matty, etc). How difficult is this?

Now's a good time to start. Prices are way down for this set and it's only 30 cards.

I only own the Lajoie from the set in an SGC 30. Another that I'd like to get is the Matty. There's one on ebay right now with a BIN of $1820 or best offer for an SGC 10. Not a bad looking card.

I also nearly made an offer on that E103 Wagner. Interestingly, $3500 was the amount I was going to offer as well. I did not realize it was the same card as the SGC one. I was certainly aware of the SGC card, but didn't consider whether it was the same card due to the back appearance. After looking at this thread, I am convinced that the cards are the same - mainly due to the birdfoot-shaped back damage in the lower middle portion of the card. Good catch! I am now glad that I didn't bid on it. I too would be interested to see the card in hand to determine the amount of work that was done on it. I wouldn't feel bad about having a card that was previously soaked in water (the likelihood is high that I already have a few in my collection that fit that description even though I have never done it myself), but recoloring is a completely different animal.

I agree that now is a decent time to pick up E103s due to their pricing. I have been doing exactly that over the past month or two.

It looks like this card made it into the Mile High Card Co. Auction, here is the link:

http://www.milehighcardco.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=15627&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=3&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=1

I get bummed out on the hobby sometimes when I see stuff like this and you know it's going to sell for a good amount of money.

Jeff

i'm against soaking, but that seems to be a nice job...i would've been fine and paid up if it just stopped there. if there was color added that would be terrible, and knowingly consign it to an auction house is worse. of course we're dealing with baseball card dealers..................

good odds he won't even get his money back....3.4k paid+work done to card+$100 psa grading fees. it was on ebay at 5.5k with a best offer...my guess best case scenario a 1.5 with nice eye appeal goes 4.5-5k and he makes a few hundos...worst case it goes around 4k and he loses money.

i'd still like to see what that red dot is all about, i'll ask milehigh when it's up and see if they'd guarantee it'll cross (prolly no).

edit: some nice collector cards also in milehigh....nice!

i'm against soaking, but that seems to be a nice job

Yes, almost too nice of a job.

Soaking will, at times remove some of the dirt, stains and dark colors but this discoloring looks kinda' deep and the end result is an almost uniformly nice light color. I'm seriously leaning towards the fact it may have been bleached. The colors on that particular card would be perfect for a low risk light bleaching.

Also, bleaching agents will sometimes cause odd stains or colors to suddenly appear from out of no where. This typically is not seen in prewar cards but it does happen. A thorough exam in hand would most certainly reveal the answer.

Nonetheless, everyone here knows something has been done to improve the overall appearance...and this is not a good thing.

Does Mile High know or would they even care?

The SGC 10 and the PSA 1.5 are most definitely the same card. The reverse is cleaned up but the "missing" color on the front of the cleaned up version is the same as that on the dirty version. Does not appear to be recolored to me based on the two scans.

Well, it sold for $4,674.15. It will be interesting to see if it comes up for auction again soon.

ended around $39xx pre-juice. just a hunch but i didn't think anybody was going to get this card for anything under 4k one way or another.