What are your thoughts about Reprint Haven?

I don't know if the results were inadvertent, or by design, but eBay has created a Reprint Haven, and it's not only growing, but doing well.

The growing Bogus Pushers are making money on their created cardboard, and eBay is getting their cut. ..... All is good in Reprint Haven!

That is: All is good in Reprint Haven ... Except for Collectors and Investors!

Those Reprints, and we are now talking about reprints from every conceivable set ever created, will come back to haunt.

Sure, we can say that a knowledgeable collector will be able to tell the difference.
We can say that, but how many times has something slipped by for whatever reason, ... you can count me in on that ... and graders, are primarily graders, not authenticators.

For whatever the reason the Bogus cardboard is being bought for ... they will come back to haunt.

What are your thoughts?

Nothing good can come of this, and until Ebay requires "reprint" to be added to the title or they have there own catagory this will continue to plague the industry. Way to many non- knowledgable people out there buying.

Lee

I don't think anything can be done to curb this, short of people only buying authenticated cards. Ebay will never require "reprint" to be added because they will never have the resources to monitor that. And there are hundreds of reprints being sold on Ebay at any given time by people who wouldn't even know to put "reprint" in the title because they truly believe they found a gem at a garage sale or flea market.

I think some may find their way into doctored slabs w/doctored flips.

That's the direction I think our hobby will be going. Problem is that the top grading companies know about it and are not adding any additonal security measures...simply ignoring it.

I believe that graders are also capable, conscientious, effective authenticators. I do not recall hearing of a major grading company ever making a mistake regarding the authenticity of a card.

Yes, they sometimes allow altered authentic cards to slip by. And yes, they have been known to employ dubious terminology, such as "? Authenticity", when there was no question at all about the card being phony.

As a matter of fact, the only thing which they seem to always get right is card authenticity, imo. Maybe Im wrong. If so, I'm sure to hear about it real soon.

I thought some one would have chimed in with one by now, so let me just mention the 2001 east coast show slip up, known as the Rosen/SGC/Keith Olbermann fiasco of a badly doctored Doyle error card.

Gil, you are right, graders are capable, and conscientious, but they are primarily graders.
Not all of them, are in the Kevin Saucier class.
Now back to the video tape about Reprint Haven. ... What are your thoughts?


Joe P.

Joe P.:
The first cut in the assessment of a card is --> is it real? This is what the grading companies are good at.
The next cut in this assessment is --> is it altered? This is what Kevin Saucier is good at.
And the next cut is ---> what grade does it deserve. I have not found anyone other than myself capable of making that determination for me.
And the final cut is ---> what is it worth. I have not found anyone other than myself capable of making that determination for me.

As far as Reprint Haven, the market is already flooded from Fritsch, Dover and a host of other sources. A collector must just bolster his resources and recognize that he is the last line of defense for the legitimacy of his collection. The grading companies are reliable, but some important cards come raw.

It is a difficult responsibility to shoulder, but it is the responsibility of each of us individually, and jointly. The best tutorial on this subject is shown below. Our forum contains the best tutorial on alteration detection. Learning both of these subjects requires effort. As questions arise, please do not hesitate to ask me, and I can refer you to knowledgable parties where mine is lacking. Good luck.

http://cycleback.com/baseballcards/twentyone.html

If this is NY Joe P.
I guess you got me.
But really, I've got to plead "entrapment"
Whats all of this shuck n' jive about confusion between the terms Authentication & Alteration ?


And John, I can not view your pictures yet. Im on my "little red x" only machine right now. But if you have fake cards which are holdered as real, I'd be surprised. I'm sure that graded doctored cards are not uncommon - ask Kevin.

Yes John,
There are numerous examples of grading companies making gross errors in grading a card, and PSA has particularly distinguished itself by demonstrating the ability to ignore the player depicted on a card, the caption, and sometimes both; in its quest to grade the card which they imagine that they are holding.

And further, if a mistake can happen, it certainly will. But making a mistake is not the problem, if the company makes good on its errors. And respectible grading companies have a history of making good on their errors. So, a novice and an advanced collector can feel secure about the authenticity of a graded card. However, I do not feel secure about the identification, grade, nor originality of any card which I do not inspect myself. But truthfully, originality is not typically as much an issue with the grade of cards which I obtain as much as it could be for those more highly graded. However, pencil erasing, soaking to remove staining and other "cleanings" are not uncommon.

As far as more and more sophisticated reprints: I am of the opinion that a good scanner or digital camera coupled with one of those $850,000. Fuji Drug Store Processing units can create reprints as good as, and in many cases: better than any commercial supplier. So, it is already a lost battle on a "stop the reprints" front.