sam thompson owned n173...

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sam thompson owned n173...

Post by cccc on Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:43 pm

i thought this was a great item being sold by his descendent...and it brought in a very healthy price. i love these little gems that still pop up once in awhile on ebay with great history from just normal people...and not filtered through the auction houses or grading companies.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130407166819&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1154
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Re: sam thompson owned n173...

Post by fisherboy7 on Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:45 pm

I was following that one too, Quan. Beautiful N173. Pretty sure it's the Philadelphia variation, which makes it even tougher.

Interestingly, the seller also listed a 19th century CDV/Photo of Thompson at the same time that was autographed by Big Sam himself. $1000 min bid. Unfortunately it was ended early within a day of being listed. Seemed like a very special piece, hope he got a decent return for it.

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Re: sam thompson owned n173...

Post by rman444 on Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:47 pm

Very healthy indeed. Who says good stuff gets lost on ebay!
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Re: sam thompson owned n173...

Post by cccc on Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:54 pm

someone binned that other piece right up. the n173 has such a great story i was actually considering putting in a snipe but i knew i can't compete with 19th cent/tigers collectors $$$$. the return to sender note on back just adds another personal touch to the piece.
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Re: sam thompson owned n173...

Post by rholmes on Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:20 am

I don't know the prices on these at all (really better that way $$$)...did the note on the back end up commanding a premium? Anyone know? If it was in Thompson's hand, that's lovely. I'd give a fingertip to have any one of my cards have a note like that.
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Re: sam thompson owned n173...

Post by sabrjay on Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:47 am

Reminds of the Kid Nichols cabinet that was shown to me be a lady whose great grandmother had dated him. The back had a love letter written to her. I couldn't talk her into selling it to me, but I can understand why.

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Re: sam thompson owned n173...

Post by pro9 on Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:13 am

I saw it also and was a bit surprised by the price. I believe people were paying up for the note on the back. As an aside, if graded the note will knock the grade down or give it a MK designation.

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n173's overall

Post by Delehanty on Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:30 pm

I too was watching the Sam Thompson card and am happy to see some people also thought it went for a particulary pretty penny. I was disappointed I didn't have a shot but would really appreciate your help in answering:

how much raw/authentic and graded n173's HOFers should actually sell for?

I am starting back in collecting vintage and this set is my favorite - but after taking in a bunch of info over the past 6 months I am thinking these cards are just so hard to find that if a collector has to pay say, 30% more than the last card that sold - that's fine.

Anyone have any thoughts on prices for these other than what I practice which is - pay what you're confortable paying.

thanks. btw just joined site this morning. take care

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Re: sam thompson owned n173...

Post by fisherboy7 on Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:32 pm

Delehanty wrote:how much raw/authentic and graded n173's HOFers should actually sell for?

Welcome to the forum! Glad to see you decided to join up. Truth be told, there's no simple answer to your question. There are many factors that determine what a N173 HOFer "should" sell for. Assuming we're on an even playing field condition-wise (let's just say we're dealing with VG cards here) there is still a lot of variance in price depending on the scarcity and desirability of the player and pose. For example, a N173 Bid McPhee (tough/desirable player) will likely outsell a more common N173 Comiskey every time. Even a superior player like King Kelly or Buck Ewing will be outsold by McPhee or even a tough non-HOFer like Pete Browning simply because 19th century collectors know how tough McPhee and Browning are.

Then you get into the really tough variations like the black border cabinets and the Dog's Head N173's and pose variations (King Kelly has several poses for example, the toughest shows him in street clothes - a real beaut!)....that's where the prices really shoot through the roof. Or, even team change variations can make a big difference in price. Like with the Thompson discussed in the thread - on that N173 he's pictured with Philadephia, which is less commonly found than the Detroit card. So, pricing on these great cards is complex and there are many factors that determine what a N173 HOFer is worth.

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Re: sam thompson owned n173...

Post by sabrjay on Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:40 pm

The Readers Digest version of what Ben just wrote...

Whoever is willing to pay the most is going to get it and it usually isn't cheap.

Jay

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Re: sam thompson owned n173...

Post by cccc on Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:31 pm

maybe what delehanty(sic Razz ) is asking for just a common run-of-the-mill hof'er...like a keefe or kelly or brouthers...i'm guessing around 3.5-4k can be had for one in VG condition?
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Re: sam thompson owned n173...

Post by fisherboy7 on Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:33 pm

That estimate sounds about right Quan.

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Thanks!

Post by Delehanty on Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:39 am

cccc wrote:maybe what delehanty(sic ) is asking for just a common run-of-the-mill hof'er...like a keefe or kelly or brouthers...i'm guessing around 3.5-4k can be had for one in VG condition?

sorry if I am resending this but my last response didn't seem to post.

I am attaching the above quote but could have also used Ben's response - thanks guys. While I expected to get a sense of the avg price for HOFers in say vg - I now see how the variations play a role in pricing. Looks like that the fact that this Thompson was the Phili version it doesn't seem AS bad paying $6.1 versus 4.0.

hey - these are the things I need to know if I'm gonna be buying these beauties.

How does everyone feel about buying cards with grades of A instead of 1's or 2's? I think they hold their value just fine and since I'm more of a raw card fan - they are okay to invest in. Or do you think A's are a bit tough to move. (look I'm selling and I haven't bought any yet) but you know what I mean - are they worth investing in?

thanks again - the info you've imparted has already helped me.

btw - anyone have any n173's to trade or sell?

thanks

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Re: sam thompson owned n173...

Post by ullmandds on Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:29 am

If you are "investing"...I'd avoid A cards. You're better off with lesser graded cards that present nicely...but may have back damage...or a back stamp or something. Personally I don't like Authentically graded cards in my collection. Just my preference...
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Re: sam thompson owned n173...

Post by terjung on Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:45 pm

"A" cards are an interesting animal. Some people will avoid them all together, but others will not. Their value can be all over the board depending on why they are "A". If trimmed, recolored, or altered, that can have a dramatically different effect on the value than getting an "A" simply because a piece of tape is on the back of the card. Due to the variation in reasoning for "A" graded cards, their value can and will vary accordingly. It all comes down to what two people are willing to pay for a card... i.e. one bidding increment above the amount that the second highest bidder will pay - in order to determine its value.

Two other notes... if you are talking about N172 OJs or something similar, the value of an "A" graded card is not as deeply affected as something much more common. In short, true card scarcity will play a roll in how an "A" is perceived as well. If there are only a few of a particular card that have survived, people are more forgiving of an "A" - especially if it isn't due to any kind of restoring.

Values of numerically graded cards can be easier to predict, and thereby can be safer "investments". If you are entering into "A" graded cards with an investment, I'd recommend you know a ton about the issue and can recognize whether it is truly a good value or not. Just remember, though, the value of "A" cards can be very subjective. Good luck!


Last edited by terjung on Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: sam thompson owned n173...

Post by ullmandds on Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:31 pm

well stated, Brian...and very true. knowledge is king!
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Re: sam thompson owned n173...

Post by Bicem on Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:19 pm

I have zero problem with Auth cards if it looks nice and helps keep the price down!
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Re: sam thompson owned n173...

Post by TheBig6 on Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:52 pm

I wouldn't even think about selling my Kelly or Keefe for 3.5-4K
N173's have dried up, as far as I can tell.
Oh, You see the odd one, but lately even REA might only have a couple hofers.
These things are buried deep in collections.
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Re: sam thompson owned n173...

Post by the-illini on Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:21 pm

I have an N173 Anson, who is actually one of the most common N173 HOF'ers out there. Like Jerry said, they have really dried up.

I remember seeing a dealer who had stacks of them at a National in the early 90's. Must have had 75 of them easy, some even had colored borders.

Given the clarity of the image and the fact it was a Thompson - Phila. version with such a cool history behind it, I am not that surprised at the final price...
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Thanks Again on your thoughts on N173's

Post by Delehanty on Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:34 am

terjung wrote:"A" cards are an interesting animal. Some people will avoid them all together, but others will not. Their value can be all over the board depending on why they are "A". If trimmed, recolored, or altered, that can have a dramatically different effect on the value than getting an "A" simply because a piece of tape is on the back of the card. Due to the variation in reasoning for "A" graded cards, their value can and will vary accordingly. It all comes down to what two people are willing to pay for a card... i.e. one bidding increment above the amount that the second highest bidder will pay - in order to determine its value.

Two other notes... if you are talking about N172 OJs or something similar, the value of an "A" graded card is not as deeply affected as something much more common. In short, true card scarcity will play a roll in how an "A" is perceived as well. If there are only a few of a particular card that have survived, people are more forgiving of an "A" - especially if it isn't due to any kind of restoring.

Values of numerically graded cards can be easier to predict, and thereby can be safer "investments". If you are entering into "A" graded cards with an investment, I'd recommend you know a ton about the issue and can recognize whether it is truly a good value or not. Just remember, though, the value of "A" cards can be very subjective. Good luck!

Not only was the above particularly helpful but so was everyone else's responses. thank you. Not sure if I mentioned the other morning when I joined the site(I must have still been sleeping because I spelled my OWN ID Delahanty INCORRECTLY! I also called Quan, Ben - probably pre-coffee) but I do have experience collecting vintage cards but it was back when I was a kid in the 70's. As I got busy living life the prices soared; I could never get into paying so much more for cards than I used to.
Until now. So here I stand collecting one card of every HOFer - STILL needing most of the 1880's guys, Jesse Burkett (and Whitey Herzog).

Can't wait to see some cards in person at the National and not scans online! thanks again

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Re: sam thompson owned n173...

Post by cccc on Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:21 am

your nick is the rare mispelled name variation...worth alot more than the more common delahanty spelling.
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