Red border !

From the archives: Julie Vognar, a lady who recognized class, yet spoke with many of us.

Disagree. Out of more than 150 cards, without especially trying, September 30 2005 at 12:33 PM		Julie Vognar Julie Vognar (Login julievognar)
Response to Red Border Colgans or Tin Tops ?
I had about 12 Tin Tops and 6 Red Borders. Of course, I'd only get red borders in which the border completely encircled the picture.

The question is -


In the frantic absconderment of PCL cards, is the 19th Century Only treasure being overlooked?





Do these card exhibit the characteristics specified as desireable in 2005, or close enough to justify a bid considering their uncataloged status?

Gil, I don't know about you but they look pretty nice to me.
The few that I have seen are usually more off center than the 2 you posted
Maybe Ben & Jay can chime in as Ben has a Tinker, Evers & Chance red borders and Jay had or has a Speaker

The pair of uncatalogued e270's Gil mentioned in 19thcenturyonly are certainly tough cards and in exceptional condition for the issue. But all the colgans issues are overlooked to an extent, imo. I bet it's partially because of their unconventional shape.

Rhett could probably provide some more accurate data, but if I were to guess, I'd say that less than 10% of E270 Red Borders are well-centered. Even fewer have a perfectly even border all the way around. So finding well centered E270's is certainly a challenge, and those examples should sell for a premium.

There have been several fairly significant E270 finds recently. The skydash collection had a great deal more tin tops, but wasn't there also a decent sized E270 group in there too? And the PCL collection in 19thcenturyonly has a bunch too. And possibly more that haven't surfaced yet. Probably a good time to grab one for your type collection! When you think about it, it's pretty cool to know that scarce vintage cards are still being found all the time.

Here's my Tinker-Evers-Chance trio, all exhibiting the typical off center cut:

The grade that the Evers got always bothered me compared to my Speaker. No way that Evers should be the same grade as my Speaker given that Evers doesn't have a complete border.



Jay

I do not know how these cards are manufactured.



But it appears that the inside of the red border is sized to allow for centering variances of the image.
Which is probably a good idea.
But there is also centering factors associated with the printing of the red border. So, there exists two variables on each disc.

Well:
Is it more important to have the image centered, or the red border centered?
Who makes this choice, and how come I didn't get the Memo?



Jay's Speaker card is a great example of these factors in that the red border is just about perfectly centered on the disc, while the player's image is nearly so.




"Of course, I'd only get red borders in which the border completely encircled the picture." - Vognar, 2005

Gil, where did you get the new avatar?--Is that you in your senior prom picture? (j/k)

I initially opened then immediately closed this thread. Way too much temptation to start another set. Fortunately, the checkbook has made that decision for me, so I can peek. I think it is more important to have at least noticeable red border all around, even if not centered, then to have a centered image. I'm a corner freak, so these cards naturally appeal to me--I spent hours trying to find the corners on these puppies, to no avail. Seriously, I notice the edge dings more than the centering unless it's so out of whack that you can't help but focus on it.

Really cool cards guys--keep 'em coming.

This is my Colgan's outfit. I'm sure that you notice the pants, but what is less obvious is the septer in my right hand is like a divining rod - used to identify the precise apex of a corner on the red border cards.

Actually, our Moderator, Ben, seems to like the attire:


p.s. Gil - that new avatar is great, can you post the full sized pic? Is it a tobin litho?.




But you are right, I'd better leave this costume in this thread. I can do without the cat calls, and towel snapping as I walk about FullCount Town.