T206 Cycle's High Grade?

I have been actively pursuing Cycle backs for the last 2 years and have yet to see a graded one higher than EX, raw or graded, I have PSA 5, but it is real border line EX in my opinion, never seen and SGC 60 or higher. Is this an oddity or something I have just over looked.

Lee

I looked at some SGC T206 pop numbers back in November. Cycle doesn't seem that tough in mid to high grade relative to the other backs. Obviously some backs are worth more than others, so it is natural to think that more lower graded Broad Leafs were graded than Piedmonts (on a relative scale), so the numbers are directly comparable, but the info is still useful.

1st number is percentage of cards graded SGC 10 to SGC 40
2nd number is percentage of cards graded SGC 50 to SGC 70
3rd number is percentage of cards graded SGC 80 to SGC 100
(SGC did not separate out BL 350 from BL 460 or Brown/Red Hindu)

AB: 60.6% 35.7% 3.6%
Cycle: 46.5% 44.8% 8.8%
EPDG 62.1% 35.4% 2.5%
Hindu: 80.5% 17.9% 1.7%
Old MIll 52.9% 39.9% 7.2%
Piedmont 56.6% 38.3% 5.1%
Polar Bear 75.8% 23.1% 1.1%
Sovereign 55.0% 40.0% 5.0%
Sweet Caporal 55.4% 38.2% 6.4%
Tolstoi 60.5% 36.9% 2.6%
Broad Leaf 77.9% 22.1% 0%
Carolina Brights 47.3% 51.6% 1.1%
Drum 75% 25% 0%
Lenox 65.5% 34.5% 0%
Uzit 70.6% 26.5% 2.9%

Lee, I have to agree with you. My highest graded Cycles are 5's. They don't appear for sale that often above EX it seems (as with many of the scarcer backs). This might be that back collectors hold onto their highest graded examples of tougher backs - I don't know.

BTW - When I collected T206 backs before, I had PSA 7's in every back except BL 460 and Drum (My highest grade in these two were 4's). Also, my BL 350 was a HOF'er in a 6 (another tough back to find above VG/EX). So, these were the three backs I found hard to find in high grade from the T206 set. The others are out there - again, they are probably locked away in a permanent collection however. Also, I didn't collect the brown Lenox cards, my brown Old Mill SL'ers were all raw (but lower grade - two handcut and one factory cut), and I didn't have any of the Old Mill Overprints (which are exceedingly rare, but nothing more than error cards IMHO).

Mid-grade (SGC50-70) Carolina Brights are more plentiful than low grade.
And for Cycle it is nearly 50/50 mid to low grade.
Interesting. Well to a casual observer, that is.
I wonder what the price difference is for these between mid and low grades compared to those backs that have a substantial population difference between grades.
I bet there is no difference, and prices follow grade, independent of backs.
But if all grades below 70 have the same population, the cheapest card is the best buy.
Assuming that graded population = true population.

It could be way better to purchase several lower grade examples of these backs, than one higher graded card.

Now I'm going back into the corner and putting my Dunce cap back on, because I have no idea regarding this subject, and I should just be quiet and let the adults talk.

Gil, you are on to something I have been telling people for a few years now. There are certain back/front combos that ARE GREAT BUYS. NOT because they have a "RARE" back. However, b/c the back is rare for a particular card or in a certain grade.

The best example of this I can give board members would be cards that appear in the 150/350 Series are MUCH MORE SCARCE with 350 Series backs than 150 backs (any brand - even the common SC and Piedmonts). This is b/c these cards were soon replaced by the cards that first appeared in the 350 Series. For example, if you have a Magee Portrait with a Sweet Caporal 350 back - that is a TOUGH BACK for this card, as it is more commonly found with a 150 back. This example is for ANY grade however.

You are correct - Carolina Brights are relatively "easy" compared to other backs in EX/MT or better. I use to own two sevens and a six or two (Carolina Brights).

I remember some "finds" of nice cards when I was collecting rare backs. My EX/MT and NM Carolina Brights came from a Mike Wheat "find". I also purchased several nice EPDG's from him (and this find) as well. My high grade Uzit and Hindu SL'ers I once owned came from a MA find that was auctioned in an old Rotman auction - everything I had graded was a 5 and above (except for one Uzit common that PSA slammed a 2 for no apparent reason - other than I wasn't a major customer). TBH, the Hindu SL'ers that came back 5's looked nicer than the 7's - I had no idea what PSA was thinking on that submission, but I didn't crack the cards out of their holders. All of these are now gone and in private collections that will more than likely not be for sale any time soon (if ever).

Still, from my experience, the T206 Broadleafs (both 350 and 460 ESPECIALLY) are SUPER TOUGH to find in EX or better. I know the PSA 6 BL 460 in REA is definitely trimmed. However, they have a REALLY NICE PSA 6 BL 350 that is the nicest BL 350 I have ever seen! The PSA 6 Collins BL 350 I owned actually was OVERGRADED by PSA (I bought it that way) - it had a huge crease in the middle of the card!

Also, T206 Drums are SUPER TOUGH in high grades. Aside from the PSA 7 Griffith sold last year again by Mastro (I believe), the next best I have seen is in the VG/EX or EX range.

Lee/Scott
my best grades

1. Broad Leaf 460-SGC 30
2. Broad Leaf 350-SGC 50/PSA 4
3. Carolina Brights-SGC 70/PSA 5
4. Cycle 350-PSA 5
5. Cycle 460-SGC 60-I think I have 3/4 examples of the 460 in this grade
6. Drum-SGC 40/PSA 4-the SGC 40 is nicer than the PSA 4
7. Hindu-SGC 60/PSA 5
8. Red Hindu-SGC 50
9. Lenox-SGC 60/PSA 4
10. Brown Lenox-SGC 30
11. Piedmont 42-SGC 70
12. Uzit-SGC 50/PSA 3

I also feel if I submitted mass amount of cards or was a large dealer most of these grades would be higher