What alterations are OK

My post in another got me to come up with one and should interesting. Your voting is anonymous, so you don't need to worry about anyone being able to figure who voted what way.

Personally, I'm in the camp that undisclosed alterations are not good, no matter how minor. The one thing that I would to see SGC do, and they already have in place with their comic book division, is different colored flips for altered and unaltered cards and notes as to what alterations were done.

Personally, I like Dan's idea best, an Authentic Unaltered AU and Authentic Altered AA grade and that's it. But it would mean the end of the set registry and the money that is made from that.

Jay

sabrjay wrote:

Personally, I like Dan's idea best, an Authentic Unaltered AU and Authentic Altered AA grade and that's it. But it would mean the end of the set registry and the money that is made from that.

Why can't we both have what we want? You guys can just assume any number on a card is AU, and ignore the numbers that other people might care about. I don't think anyone would have a problem with that.

Just call us crotchety old school guys

Jay

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with how you want to view the grading of cards, that's up to you. But I just see that the current system allows for more information than you want, and you could simply just dismiss the "extra bullshit" information that you don't need. The only difference would be the lettering/numbering on a piece of paper in between the plastic. So I'm saying we can all be happy, right?

cmoking wrote:Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with how you want to view the grading of cards, that's up to you. But I just see that the current system allows for more information than you want, and you could simply just dismiss the "extra bullshit" information that you don't need. The only difference would be the lettering/numbering on a piece of paper in between the plastic. So I'm saying we can all be happy, right?

King, most definitely. When I look at a slabbed card, it isn't the number on the slab I look at, it's the card itself. The current system is OK. I'd just rather see the two color label system like they use for comics.

Jay

Back to the original topic of the post: what about wax stains (as opposed to caramel stains)? I have no problem with removing a wax stain without chemicals, but wondering what others think.

I have to admit that I've removed wax from a card before. I found the best way was to use a nylon and gently rub in a circular motion. I guess if it's a gob of something, wax, tobacco or whatever I don't have an issue with it being removed without being mentioned.

Removing creases or materially changing the physical appearance of the card, such removing creases or adding color, that is a big no-no.

Jay

Jay...There is absolutely nothing wrong with removing wax residue from baseball cards. I've found that panty hose work great. Just make sure that your wife or girlfriend isn't wearing them at the time. One way or another, the card will likely get creased...

The problems with the numbers on the slabs is that they are completely subjective and have caused cards with high numbers to be grossly overpaid for.

Of course my suggestion isn't perfect either, I watched a guy pop an altered trimmed 1960's Topps card out of a PSA holder and resubmit it and it came back as a 9. He was singing and jumping up and down and all I could say was: "God I love grading".

Mark, I think you are the one that taught me the pantyhose trick with wax stains.

Jay

r337man wrote:The problems with the numbers on the slabs is that they are completely subjective and have caused cards with high numbers to be grossly overpaid for.

What's the alternative when buying online? In person I can see since someone could look at the card (although even in person, often you can't see everything due to poor lighting). The alternative (and this is just a hypothetical) is that someone like me would have to trust someone like you in telling me the condition of a card when buying online. Unfortunately, I would not trust you to tell me the truth, but I think SGC and PSA would do a better job of it. I would imagine someone like you could do as good if not a better job than SGC/PSA, but the problem is whether you'd really tell me. My money is not on Yes with most people unless it is someone I know well and trust, and that's not many.

Just for the sake of accuracy, cgc graded comics have 4 colored labels:

blue - unrestored
green - unrestored but with qualifier (like missing a page)
yellow - signature (witnessed autograph)
purple - restored

There are also numerical grades associated with each label as well as the level of restoration and whether the restoration is amateur or professional for the purple label.

A description of the detected restoration is also noted on the purple label.

The alternative is WHO CARES what is wrong with the card that the naked eye cannot see. Are you collecting or investing??

When I bought my 1960 Brooks Robinson from a dealer at a show in 1972 he had 3 of them, 1 with rounded corners, 1 with a crease across the middle and 1 nicely centered and no creases, all were .20 each.

ah the good ole days, I bought the one with rounded corners as I liked the fact it was used.

The real problem is, it's all about the money now.

Ah, and that's how the conversation ends as it always does. If it doesn't end here, it only gets personal, no need for that.

What bothers you more?, paperloss on the back or writing on the back.

Paper loss if there is a bio on the back. If it's just an ad, then it's no big deal unless I am buying the card for the ad on the back. I had a chance to get a t205 with Drum back. I passed because the damage to the ad part of the back was significant.

Jay

sorry King, I didn't think I was being personal, please forgive me.

I think paperloss is much worse than writing. I like to know that the back is full.

dan

Jay I remember that Drum back!! I was in the market for one at the time as well and refused that one due to the paperloss. I wanted the card for the back so if the paperloss would have been on the front, I probably would have bought it. Dan

r337man wrote:sorry King, I didn't think I was being personal, please forgive me.

Sorry, I wasn't clear, nothing to apologize for at all. I don't think it has gotten personal. Just saying if it went further, it would start to get personal, so its best I (or we) end it right there before the line is crossed.

no sweat on my end my friend, have we done business before? I recognize ur ID but I am borderline memoryless! Anyway I surely am not looking for a fight and if you disagree with me on anything, be sure you are probably in the majority and on the right side of the fence.

take good care and thanks for posting a kind response, I truly appreciate it.

Dan

I am a little surprised at the 7% for full restorations that are not disclosed. Full restorations that are disclosed I could see ok. I have a Baltimore Team cabinet I had fully restored and framed and on the back I have how it used to look. Kind of neat to see the huge difference!

I wish I could turn back the clock and buy cards when Dan was collecting, when things could be bought for pennies on today's dollar. However, having only seriously collected over the past 5 or so years, my pocketbook has been at the mercy of the market.

Unfortunately, with the amount that a lot of these cards cost today, I am not in the financial position that I can simply ignore the cost/value of my cards. I wish I was, but I am not. How much I can afford always comes into play.

Fast forward Dan's scenario to today. I would take the rounded corner card for 20 cents as well, but it would be because the rounded corner card and creased card would be 20 cents each while the mint card would be $20 in a PSA 9 holder

I think I have a little of both King and Dan in me.

That is a great point rman, I think in the past 37 years my .20 purchase which I still have is probably worth about .05

Anyone here want me to invest their money for them???

This is an easy one.

All alterations are bad from erasing a pencil mark to getting rid of gum stains to soaking cards to trimming them....whether it is disclosed or not.

Jim