What % of Graded Cards are Altered?

What percentage of PSA/SGC/Beckett/GAI graded vintage cards do you think are altered in some way?

Vote and discuss.

This goes to the heart of our hobby, for many collectors.
The input of those in a position of awareness would be as interesting as what the average collector thinks. These "aware" individuals would include top collectors, auction house operators, grading companies, and others.
"If an alteration is not detectable - does it exist" is the question I wrestle with.


And don't forget the ever popular "What % of ex or better vs. vg/ex or less are altered and graded"

great poll...

I voted less than 10%...i believe 3-4% are altered.


No way any more than 10%....


Mark

I would have to agree with Mark. Would be interesting to know, but at the same time, I think I may not want to.

Obviously, the percentage is going to be much higher for EX and better cards. I also went with less than 10% since you are factoring in all the lower grade cards. If we are talking ex and higher, I'd say 25% or more

Jay

I agree with Jay-the % goes way up somewhere around grade 6. Remember wiwag! And with todays technology many cards are getting past graders.
How many graders are veteran collectors?

That's a pretty scary thought (higher grade cards). That's why I'll stick to low grade collecting. There's less of an incentive to alter those cards, since the payout isn't as great.

Is it a factor of grade, or is it the card's value which is the incentive for alteration? I believe that any card valued above $1K is a strong candidate for improvement attempts. And many below that value.

At times, collectors send me boxes of new purchases just to look at. More then often though, I get a few cards at a time, which has been going on for several years. Just from my experience, I would say 20-30% on all levels...and many of these are slabbed. Probably higher for grades 7 and above. Keep in mind, I'm not grading or examining their beauty...I'm specifically looking, in depth, for alterations.

Then again, I live in an altered card world with in an altered state of mind.


* Edited to say - These percentages are for prewar only and pertain to the top four grading companies. This is more than just a guess...pretty much straight data.

I'd guess a lot test work is done on lower grade cards for practice before actually trying out something on a truly expensive card. These are less likely to get slabbed than work that is done on spendier cards.

Jay

Scary stuff indeed.

I believe that it is less than 1%, with 99% of the alterations in the EX and above category, in the vintage category. Since I think that EX or above is a small % in the total of vintage cards graded.

I just got to thinking that the vintage stuff is only a small faction of the total graded cards, which means the newer stuff that gets graded is probably 99% EX or above, which probably means the 3-4% is realistic.

This being said I have complete faith in SGC, real leery about high grade PSA, the other companies to small of data, obviously PRO is 99% altered, (they tilt the scales if they count for the %).

Lee

i wouldn't put all grading companies under 1 umbrella, as that might skew the perception. of course cards in pro, gem, csa, elite, blah blah yada yada have a >98% of being altered. the other 2% would be for the grandpa in pennsylvania who found 15 t205s in the attic, asked his grandson to do a search and somehow PRO popped up and they sent it there...but those good cards would soon go into legit holders eventually.

a few years back beckett/gai had those "pre-grade" option where they'd give u a pre-slab grade based on looking at the card for all of 15-20 seconds, and you can EASILY slip recolored/retouched cards that way...like what alteration can they find with a loupe and yellow bulb light in 20 sec??? i think baker/gai messed up there.

i believe currently if u really wanted to you can slip about 20% bad stuff through PSA...yes they're that horrible, and getting worse by the day. they did me a great service with the new label by putting the numerical grade under the abbreviated VG/EX etc...so i can avoid those cards totally.

sgc is sgc, but getting less consistent. maybe they have a a couple new graders. i'm not that impressed with the cards lately.


here's an example of a psa card. this card used to be mine in a 2MK holder. i don't disagree with the VG grade, however u can still make out the pencil "e93" on the back bottom of the card...like how do u miss that? i can see it on the scan with my 13.3 monitor! and they pull this stuff consistently these days! if they can't spot a pencil mark then how do they have trimming/shaving/soaking...

edited out a pic of my family

Very cute....



Oh, and yea the kid is adorable also.


Mark

better you rant at us then them. Didn't know you spawned a future card collector. Congrats.

Jay

If you take into consideration, card cleaning,the great grey area,I beleive there iis a higher then 10% factor on the higher demand cards.I am a purist and beleive this should be banned. I saw a card cleaner in Cleveland, take a Tip Top Bread card,Honus Wagner ,where you could no longer see the front image and turn this card into a 10,000 item. Dave S