Foreign Cards - are they acceptable?

by ItsOnlyGil Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:58 pm

Does it matter if they have an ACC designation?

Cards like these, I'm referring to:

1949 JDM3 Airplane Diecuts
1948-49 Toleteros
1933 Sanella Margarine
1912 C46 Imperial Tobacco
1924-25 Aguilitas
1927 FC59 Honey Boy Ice Cream
1909 Cabañas
1922 V61 Neilson's Chocolate
1910 Punch
1923 V100 Willards Chocolates
1923-24 Billiken
1949 JCM4 All Japan/Seals Menko
1923-24 Nacionales
1925 Turf Cigarettes
1923-24 Tomás Gutiérrez
1923-24 La Moda
1931 N561 Diana Cigarrillos
1927-28 Mallorquina
1945-46 Felices

Evil or Very Mad

by fisherboy7 Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:20 pm

Gil, what exactly do you mean by "acceptable"?

That's an interesting list you've provided, lots to discuss there. I'm particularly intrigued by the 1910 Punch set.

by ItsOnlyGil Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:27 pm

"Acceptable" is for definition by the reader.

http://www.cubanbaseballauctions.com/bid/bidplace.asp?itemid=772

by psacollector Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:46 pm

Doesn't the 1910 Punch set contain a card of Pete Hill, who was inducted in the HOF in 2006? The only other alternative would be the Cabanas card, that was being auction a few years ago with a $100,000 starting bid.

Foreign cards do not appeal to everyone, but some of the issues are great. The Latin American card issues listed by Gil contain some of the only cards for players who played in the Negro League. These cards are, not just acceptable, but rather highly coveted by HOF collectors, rookie collectors, Latin collectors, Negro League collectors, etc. It is a niche area for sure but collectors of Puerto Rican and Cuban cards are very passionate about these cards.

by ItsOnlyGil Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:57 pm

http://www.cubanbaseballcards.com/NegroHOFers.html

by fisherboy7 Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:00 pm

Here's a scan of some super rare 1910 Punch cards. They are almost always found in poor condition. Interesting how the American Tigers and Athletics players are mixed in too so that the set includes HOFers like Cobb, Crawford, Bender and Plank.

Edited to add: Wes - yes, Pete Hill is included in the Punch set.

Foreign Cards - are they acceptable? Punch10

by hanksta Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:36 pm

I really love the Punch cards, I would guess the players were photgraphed during the winter tour in 1909?

What I find interesting is that Cobb is included in the Punch set but not in the Canbanas set since the Canbana set contains Detriot players.

by ItsOnlyGil Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:10 pm

Ben,

If "There are less than 50 total examples of 1910 Punch cards known" is accurate, and I imagine that it is, then your scan shows about half of the existing examples of the set. Quite an important assembly (and acceptable, I would think).

by psacollector Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:47 pm

Indeed, that is an incredible accumulation of Punch cards. Can you reveal who those cards belong to, Ben?

by fisherboy7 Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:21 pm

psacollector wrote:Can you reveal who those cards belong to, Ben?

I have no idea, Wes. I've had the scan on file for a while now (for oggling purposes). I believe it was originally posted on Ryan Christoff's site which is where I found it. I've been wondering for a while what might have become of these phenomenal cards.

I think I spot the Cobb - second row far right. Or maybe not? Crawford looks to be on the first row (third from right), and that's definitely Plank & Bender on the 3rd row (second and far right). Am I off?

by mzm55 Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:53 pm

Cobb is indeed the furthest left on the second row of Detroit players, Ben; your observation on the other players is also correct.

These cards are part of one of the best negro league/Cuban baseball collections (not Ryan’s, however) and will likely remain there for sometime.

by fisherboy7 Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:14 am

The Punch Marsans from Ryan's recent auction is a special card. Better image clarity than the ones in the group above, and if you can believe it, above average shape for a Punch card. IMO, $1750 seems like a very reasonable price given the extreme scarcity combined with it being a significant player in Marsans.

Just so we can have it in the thread, here's the scan along with the Ryan's description which gives us a little insight on the set:

Foreign Cards - are they acceptable? Item_772_1

Foreign Cards - are they acceptable? Item_772_1

1910 Punch cards are among the most desirable of all Cuban baseball card issues.

Armando Marsans is one of the most important figures in the history of Cuban baseball.

Put those two points together and you get this card, the only known example of a Punch Marsans card.

As big of a star as Marsans was in 1910, they still managed to spell his name "Marzans" on this card.

There are less than 50 total examples of 1910 Punch cards known. Of those, only four of them are attached to the original backing. All other example are similar to this one. In spite of the surface wear near the top edge, the image quality is still outstanding with most of the wear in background or border areas.

by fisherboy7 Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:34 am

Here are some more Punch scans from Cubanball.com, the first of which is the aformentioned Pete Hill. As you can see, several have the original backing still intact including that awesome Jose Mendez.

Foreign Cards - are they acceptable? Db_1hi10

Foreign Cards - are they acceptable? Db_1ca10

Foreign Cards - are they acceptable? Db_1go10

Foreign Cards - are they acceptable? Db_1go11

Foreign Cards - are they acceptable? Db_1me10

Foreign Cards - are they acceptable? Db_1mo10

Foreign Cards - are they acceptable? Db_1pa10

by ItsOnlyGil Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:54 pm

Gil,

Interesting thread. Thanks for the link. By the way, Cobb is on the far right in the bottom row of Tigers, not far left.

-Ryan

by mzm55 Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:28 pm

I don’t know what I was thinking when I made my post, Gil you are certainly correct about Cobb in the scanned image above.

The most interesting thing about the Punch cards is how so very few have the original backing. This could be due to them being pasted into albums and being taken out , maybe not all were even made with the ornate backings, etc.

Ben,

I agree with you, the Marsans was a great deal. The actual image of the player is free of damage and combined with the scarcity of the set it makes for one lethal card.

by fisherboy7 Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:46 pm

Following up on the discussion of the 1910 Punch cards, Barry Sloate has one in his upcoming November auction.

1910 Punch Viola.

(And no, I don't have a vested interest in this card or with Sloate Auctions Razz

I just really dig this set)

by ItsOnlyGil Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:29 am

Imho this thread belongs in our virtual sets and checklists thread so that we don't lose it.
Maybe some of those on the Leader Novelty/w517, etc belong there too.

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