The LAST STRAW with PayPal!

Big Ed, Vintage seller from PA, contacted me a couple months back and asked if I had received a chargeback from PayPal for an item I sold some four months ago. He told me he sold a certain person a high dollar card around this time and received a chargeback from PayPal, as did other sellers selling this person items. Well, I had not received a chargeback and thought there was no way PayPal could do this, as the buyer received the item and left positive feedback around four months ago.

Well, to my surprise, tonight I received the e-mail below from PayPal. It sounds like the buyer disputed charges on his/her credit card from last year. I always thought that if a credit card was stolen, that was between the cardholder and the credit card company. I never knew that I could be hit with the chargeback as a seller! Well, I can say one thing - I am DONE WITH PAYPAL after this!!!! Also, I shipped the card to this person and it was received in fine shape (shipped via Registered Mail of course). I WILL NOT be out the card and pay PayPal over $7k!!!! I will change my bank account number first, before I let PayPal try to charge this amount from my account and will no longer accept PayPal payments on anything I sell (ebay or otherwise).

Here is the e-mail from PayPal regarding the chargeback of an item I sold several months ago (again, the buyer received the card and left positive feedback for me on this). I thought I would post this here so others can beware of PayPal and what could happen to you!

I have responded to PayPal, per their instructions - I will keep everyone abreast of the results.

Dear Jimmy Elkins,

We were recently notified that one of your buyers filed a chargeback and
asked their card issuer to reverse a payment made to you.

Although a chargeback may appear to be similar to a PayPal claim, it is
actually a process initiated outside of PayPal and controlled by the card
issuer. One of the unique benefits of using PayPal is that we help you
fight unwarranted chargebacks and attempt to recover your funds.

The chargeback states that the buyer's card was used to make a purchase
without their knowledge.

It is up to the card issuer to decide whether or not they believe that the
buyer’s chargeback is valid and they are asking for some information about
this transaction from you.


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Transaction Details
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Buyer's Name:Carly Kamerman
Buyer's Email:lm78@pacbell.net
Transaction Date:Oct 21, 2007
Your Transaction ID: 4VL884496S378534N
Buyer's Transaction ID: 3UL67194AD3113301
Transaction Amount:-$7,525.00 USDCase #:PP-418-810-121

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What to Do Next
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Please submit your response within 10 calendar days so that we can process
the chargeback for you. Chargeback timeframes are determined by the card
issuer and they have requested that you reply with information as soon as
possible. Once they receive your information, it may take up to 75 days
for the card issuer to make a final decision.


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Other Details
-----------------------------------

There are no other details regarding this transaction at this time.



Sincerely,

PayPal
Chargeback Department
Email: chargeback-response@paypal.com
Fax: 402-537-5755


CB:PP-418-810-121:R4:USD7525.00:02102008:4VL884496S378534N


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PayPal Email ID PP767

That sucks Scott....yes, i would take every penny out of your bank account so they can't go after it!!!


For me...I just got a email surprise today from Ebay...I have just been suspended from Ebay today, don't know why. Looks like my automatic payment for the fees did not go thru.(i owed them $20) Thats the only thing i can think of. I have not won anything in a while. Oh well, i was getting sick of their CRAP anyway...if they re-instate me then thats fine and if not then F$^& them!!!!


Mark

Hey Scott....I'm really sorry to hear that. I have been a victim of this as well. I actually posted my senario in the Aimoo site when that was up.

Same thing, except mine was for $750. 4 months after the guy got my item, he issued a charge back against me. I had emails to prove that he received the item, I sent it priority mail with insurance, so it had to be signed for, and delivery confirmation. All this was not enough for paypal. THEY REQUIRE SIGNATURE CONFIRMATION on all items shipped over $250 (i believe).

My PAYPAL account sat at -$750 for over a month until I had enough to balance it out. They won't take money from your personal account. THEY CANNOT DO THAT, IT IS AGAINST THE LAW. You just won't be able to use your paypal account until the balance is zeroed out. Not really a big deal unless you're selling something and using paypal as an option. Then when you get paid, the funds automatically go towards the negative balance. But they won't take it out of your account. I've asked them multiple times, and they are not autorized to do so without your permission. You have to be the one to initiate a transfer between your bank account and paypal.

Hope this helps.

Same thing happened to me in 2004 Scott. Sold a guy a T206 red Cobb, mailed it with delivery confirmation (and NO signature confirmation). He definitely received the card as I received confirmation, but because there was no signature, paypal issued the chargeback and zapped $600+ out of my balance. Stupid of me to keep a balance there in the first case.

Like Eric said, get all of your $ out of your paypal balance NOW.

Thanks for the info guys! I sent the item Registered Mail, which was definitely signed for. However, after positive feedback was left and these receipts kept piling up, I usually discard ones over two months old, as to not "junk up" my computer/card room. So, I don't have the signed receipt unfortunately (it is in the landfill somewhere).

From reading PayPal's e-mail, this seems to me like someone used someone else's credit card to make all these purchases last year (not that the buyer didn't receive the items). It is good news that PayPal cannot take any money out of my bank account, as I will simply leave PayPal with a negative balance if this is not resolved. I always thought that credit card companies were responsible for stolen cards like this. I guess those bastards are going to try to screw the little guy however. I am not going to let them stick it to me however!

Eric and Ben - hate to hear about the bad dealings the two of you had with PayPal - it always seems to happen to the nice guys!

If someone steals your credit card and uses it then you are only responsible for the first $50. These credit card companies offer protection if you pay them but most people don't buy extra coverage.

Mark

isn't here a statute on how long you can file a chargeback? 4 months seem like a long time! paypal/ebay suck! they get their share up front and be damned about what happens to us. i know some of u like to keep a paypal balance but i ship the transfer to my bank pretty fast so there's no funny business.

scott 7.5k is alot of money i don't think they can get the balance from your bank.

Another thing PayPal is good at, even if you use signatiure confirmation, is the "not as described" scam by buyers. Twice I've had buyers refuse insurance, than make claims that the item was not as described because the post office destroyed the item in transit. I had to refund their money INCLUDING shipping. Their disopute resolution is worthless. You get a form that asks if you agree with the claim. They don't give you a box to explain why. You just check yes or no.

With this sstem, there is no need to insure a package if you pay with PayPal. You just file a "not as described" claim and you get your money back PLUS shipping, free of charge.

Jay

Quan, hope you are right. Anyway, that money is long gone (spent on other items by now). Also, I keep only enough in my bank account to cover bills and what I buy on eBay. So, as we say in the Hills, they can't squeeze blood out of a turnip!

Jay - Hate to hear your horror stories with PayPal. It seems over half the sellers who accept PayPal have similar horror stories. I am DONE with PayPal personally. I always ship out cards to board members and people I have dealt with in the past before I receive their payment anyway, so taking a check or MO will not slow down their receiving the item(s) promptly.

Hey Scott, don't sweat it. If you have no further plans of using paypal, and you don't have any funds in your paypal account, they can't do anything. Honestly that's the only way they'll eat it.

If I ever get another chargeback on me......I'll leave my account at negative whatever, and never use it again. Paypal had the nerve to tell me that I should always keep extra money around as insurance in case a chargeback occurs. Well I've had my one, and that's it for me. F--- them, on the next one. Make them eat it, for not standing up for the sellers.

It really is weird. PayPal is owned by eBay. eBay so lopsided in favor of the seller, while PayPal is the polar opposite. Now if the two could learn to balance there radical stances, they'd both be much better companies.

Jay

I had a chargeback once for something around $50, not too bad, but when I contacted PayPal they said I should figure this in the cost of doing business...I just about flipped my lid.

What card did you sell Scott and do you know the other cards the buyer purchased? I would guess the buyer is going to try and resell it at some point?

sdbh

Sean, the card I sold was a GAI 1.5 E90-1 Jackson with two pinholes at the top with glue stains around the pinholes. I could definitely spot it, should it come up for sale anywhere in the future. As for the other cards he purchased, I don't know - those were from other sellers.

I just discovered the PayPal removed funds from bank account without my permission, so whoever said they can't, is wrong. See my thread about what happened for details

Jay