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What are the toughest sets to find in top condition?

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What are the toughest sets to find in top condition? Empty What are the toughest sets to find in top condition?

Post by fisherboy7 Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:12 pm

Some sets are notorious for being found only in low grades. I think T216 Virginia Extras would be a good example of that. I've owned only one example before (Bridwell), and it was in HORRIBLE condition. Completely tattered around the edges, a few chunks missing, and heavily creased. I've never seen a Virginia Extra in better than VG and am not sure they even exist in mid-high grade.

What other sets are super tough to find in top condition? Feel free to share scans too!

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Post by sabrjay Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:20 pm

1941 Goudeys, 1918 Zeenuts, and Colgan red borders would be on that list.

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Post by crazylocomerk Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:54 pm

Along with what Ben said about T216 VE's, T216 Kotton Type 3's are super tough (or non-existent) to find in higher grades. Kotton Type 3's have the "Never Go Out" ad on the back, and are printed on very thin card stock. I have 11 Type 3's and only 1 of them is graded an SGC 40 (3). I don't think I've ever seen one graded higher (though I have seen at least 1 other 3), so a VG grade type 3 is considered "high" grade.

With Virginia Extras, the rumor is that they all came out of the same album that washed up on the gulf coast after a storm (or something along those lines). They too are printed on super thin card stock, thus resulting in the poor condition. And add the fact that they all have the same type of paper-loss/water damage, and sometimes animal bite damage to them and the story fits. Most are graded AUT, or SGC 10. There are a few examples out there of SGC 20's (a Jennings and a Doyle).

Here are my three examples of VE's:

What are the toughest sets to find in top condition? 1911-16T216VirginiaExtraAlBridwell

What are the toughest sets to find in top condition? 1911-16T-216KleinowRedVIRGINIAEXTRA

What are the toughest sets to find in top condition? 1911-16T-216SmithBossVIRGINIAEXTRA
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Post by glenv Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:56 pm

Here's a few: Lections, George C. Miller, sets w/ coupons - Zeenuts, Fleischmanns, Tarzans, die cuts - Middy Bread, E125 American Caramel.

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Post by crazylocomerk Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:01 pm

And here's a scan of my "high" grade Kotton type 3. Printed on the same type of paper stock as the Virginia Extras.

What are the toughest sets to find in top condition? 1911-16T216TopsyHartselKottonCigsTy



On a side note:

I also believe that we will never see a large previously unknown discovery of T216s. Regional distribution, years of poor weather conditions (hurricanes, humidity, vermin, etc.), and poor card stock will prevent this from ever happening. If I'm wrong....I'll eat my words.
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Post by crazylocomerk Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:03 pm

T213 Type 1's. Same reasons as for the T216's. And there's nothing recorded higher then an SGC 50 (4).
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Post by canjond Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:30 pm

glenv wrote:Here's a few: Lections, George C. Miller, sets w/ coupons - Zeenuts, Fleischmanns, Tarzans, die cuts - Middy Bread, E125 American Caramel.

I second Lections. Extremely tough to find in good condition. Also, a lot of Es are difficult to find in top condition. Yes, there might be some nice examples, but the vast majority are all lower grade.
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Post by docpatlv Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:36 pm

These are tough to find in nice shape...

1914 T330-2 Piedmont Art Stamps
1911 Stevens Firearms

...and for the most part earlier strip cards.

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Post by Jim Rivera cfc1909 Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:58 pm

I agree with Virginia Extra being one of the toughest in nice condition-I think mine are worse than Eric's
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Post by fisherboy7 Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:01 pm

I agree with alot of what's been said, especially the Piedmont Art Stamps and Lections. You never see those in great shape.

What's the best conditioned E107 anyone has seen? I think I've seen a SGC 50 but none higher.

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Post by terjung Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:07 pm

The E105 Mello Mints probably lend themselves to this discussion since most have a lengthwise crease in them due to how they were inserted. Also, about half of that set is doggone scarce.

It is no secret that I am partial to E107s - so I can't help but bring them up. They tend to be pretty rough. Anything VG or better is tough and rare.

1914 CJs are on thin stock as well, but there seem to be a reasonable number of those around without substantial paper loss. Staining is another issue...


Last edited by terjung on Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:24 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Changed my errant ACC number reference from E106 Mello Mints to E105 Mello Mints)
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Post by terjung Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:10 pm

fisherboy7 wrote:I agree with alot of what's been said, especially the Piedmont Art Stamps and Lections. You never see those in great shape.

What's the best conditioned E107 anyone has seen? I think I've seen a SGC 50 but none higher.

I guess you beat me to it, Ben. I can verify that there is an SGC 50 Matty out there. The SGC pop chart lists one or two individual cards higher, but I have never seen them.
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Post by Bosox Blair Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:32 am

I would add many (maybe all?) of the early Cuban issues.

I overheard an interesting conversation between a few veteran collectors/dealers about the Louisiana T-card issues. They all agreed these were noticably tough in high grade. Some of the factors they spoke of also fit the Cuban issues: more fragile/lower quality stock, high humidity, floods over the years, lower income/poverty (which could affect the ability over decades to collect and preserve fragile items).

Interesting thread!
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Post by 3-2-count Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:37 pm

I would place E106's on the list to as far as E cards go. T214 Victory tobacco and M131 Baltimore Newsboys are both rare and tough to find in anything better than Good condition as well.

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Post by bowlingshoeguy Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:40 pm

I was surprised to see it took so long to add the Mello mints, I thought maybe there was a find I was not aware of that had a lot of nice conditioned cards. I have one and it is awesome except for the centering.

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Post by ullmandds Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:06 pm

Lee...there seem to be a fair amount of high grade e105's out there...I think there was a find some years ago of uncirculated cards. My type is sgc 80 I think...but I can't find a scan. Some e105's were folded in half as well...they seem either really nice...or really bad...except for yours!!!
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Post by sabrjay Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:09 pm

Mark Macrae came across a large number of Mellow-Mints without the center crease but nothing was really beyond Ex. All had noticeable corner wear. Maybe Mark will chime in with details on that find.

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Post by fisherboy7 Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:15 pm

terjung wrote:
fisherboy7 wrote:I agree with alot of what's been said, especially the Piedmont Art Stamps and Lections. You never see those in great shape.

What's the best conditioned E107 anyone has seen? I think I've seen a SGC 50 but none higher.

I guess you beat me to it, Ben. I can verify that there is an SGC 50 Matty out there. The SGC pop chart lists one or two individual cards higher, but I have never seen them.

Oh wow, I wasn't aware of the Matty SGC 50. Would love to see a scan of that one! The 50 I remember seeing was a common player (don't remember the name). I also vaguely recall a E107 Young in real nice shape but forget what grade it was. I should keep better records!

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Post by Bicem Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:25 am

the e107 Young that recently sold was an SGC 60.

Doesn't PSA have some crazy PSA 8 Plank? in the pop report???
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Post by fisherboy7 Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:43 am

Bicem wrote:the e107 Young that recently sold was an SGC 60.

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Post by TheBig6 Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:09 am

Some of the rare back M101's are tough to find in high grade. Successful Farming comes to mind
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Post by crazylocomerk Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:25 pm

I think the E107 SGC 50 common player you're talking about seeing is Monte Cross. That's the one I remember.
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Post by bowlingshoeguy Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:14 am

I forgot yo put my nickel on the Piedmont Art Stamps. Very tough in nice condition. I have this Tinker, that I can't find anything wrong with, not sure the criteria but I don't think I have ever seen one graded higher than Ex, and O would love to compare those with my Tinker. The next highest grade I have is a 40. Anything above 20 seems to be a great Stamp.

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Post by Jim Rivera cfc1909 Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:56 pm

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Post by fisherboy7 Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:18 pm

Here's another nice high grade (for the set) E107 with the seldomly seen overprint back. Not mine, I pulled it off a google image search. I recall it being on ebay a few years ago. To say that you don't often see E107's in this kind of condition would be an understatement.

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