Zeenut Scarcity: A Survey

Question to the forum...

1. What are the top 5 toughest Zeenut years?

2. What are the top 5 toughest Zeenut HOFers (any year)?

3. What are the top 5 toughest Zeenut "commons" (non hofers - any year)?

I doubt you'll get an answer to #3 from anyone with any real knowledge about that answer. It's like asking an OJ collector what the really tough OJs are. They just aren't going to tell you. FAtty Arbuckle is tough, but I doubt it rates a top 5 standing.

1918 is easily the toughest.

Toughest HOFer is probably Thorpe. There aren't many and the people that do own it aren't parting with it. Not sure who the toughest baseball HOFer would be.

Jay

sabrjay wrote:I doubt you'll get an answer to #3 from anyone with any real knowledge about that answer. It's like asking an OJ collector what the really tough OJs are. They just aren't going to tell you.

One thing I've noticed about zeenut/obak collectors is that they are knowledgeable, hardcore, and often very willing to share info. Not nearly as competitive as the OJ scene, where disclosing certain info on tough cards could cost advanced collectors big time $$. Unless Mark Macrae comes on and posts, nobody's gonna come up with a bang-on zeenut list, but it's fun to speculate and discuss. Admittedly I'm no expert on these cards, which is why I pose the question. Note that we're talking scarcity, not rarity. There's no way of actually knowing the exact # of a particular zeenut card extant....it's a non scientific survey....all we have to judge by is how often we see these cards transact.

I'll throw out a few novice opinions to get the ball rolling.

Scarcest non-hofers would include Arbuckle and Claxton and a few of the Black Sox would have to be up there. It's McMullen's "only", right. When is the last time an Arbuckle was for sale?

Alot of people have mentioned Crawford and Heilmann as tough HOFers. And Thorpe too. A lowgrade Thorpe hit ebay a few months ago. How much did that one sell for? I sorta remember thinking it was a bargain.

My list of toughest sets based on my zeenut collecting experience:

1. 1918
2. 1920*
3. 1915
4. 1913
5. 1916

*1920's have become very tough. I used to collect this set aggressively and now they just don't come up for sale anymore. In fact, a year or two ago I don't think that set would have made my top five, but times haves changed.

As far as singles go:

Non-Hofers-

1. 1911 Sammy Bohne
2. Arbuckle
3. Claxton
4. Thorpe
5. McMullen

There are many scarce "commons" thoroughout the Zeenut series ranging from difficult to just plain rare.

I'll have to get back to you later on HOFers,but off the top of my head I would think Chance, Crawford, and Heilmann are all pretty tough.

Thorpe is a HOFer, just not a baseball HOFer

Your ranking of years seems pretty good. How does Greasy Neal rate on the toughness scale?

Jay

Or how about this "ultra rare" Ike Danning Zeenut?

$1250 for a beater - must mean it's a pretty special card, no?

Everything that seller has is special

Jay

I'd second the 1911 Bohne for #1 on the list. Seems like I've seen a few McMullens in the past year or so. Was there not a Claxton on eBay not too long ago. I remember it being auctioned somewhere because it had been so long since I had seen one.

So what's the story behind the Bohne card? Being the zeenut novice that I am, I wasn't aware of it being such a tough card. Is their an explanation for its scarcity, ie. a single collector hoarding every Bohne card, like someone has done with the Obak/Zeenut Miller? Or could it have been a short printed card?

I have always heard of the Claxton being the first baseball card to depict an African American. Is this correct or is there another reason its so expensive?

According to VCP the only one sold in 05' for $7200.

Jeff

Regarding the 1911 Bohen, as far as most seem to know there is only one copy available. I remember reading once upon a time that it was pulled early in production, but I don't recall the reason. I've never seen it.

Comisky wrote:I have always heard of the Claxton being the first baseball card to depict an African American. Is this correct or is there another reason its so expensive?

That's correct. Except he was African-Canadian, born in Vancouver in 1892.

I believe a Claxton showed up on ebay in '07 but don't remember what it sold for. Here's a scan and wikipedia link



Edited to say that Claxton is the first black ballplayer on a card......unless you count obscure cabinets as "cards", in which case Moses Fleetwood Walker was the first.

Isn't it thought that Bohne is also Jewish? I had forgot about that card and I know that it is on every advanced Zeenut collector's list.

Jay

The prevailing theory is that Bohne or Bohen was Jewish. As a result, he has a following among those collectors that specialize in Jewish players.

I have also heard the story about his 1911 card being pulled early in production, but I don't remember hearing about why.

Lew Lipest had one in an OldJudge auction a couple of years ago. That particular example was trimmed right down to the player and still acheived a final price in the range of $500 to $1000, If I recall correctly.

The 1911 Bohne is one of those hidden gems in Pre-War PCL card collecting that is well known by advanced collectors, but has yet to come up on the radar of the everyday vintage collector.

Hopefully either Mark MaCrae or Brian Parker will see this thread and chime in with some additional info.

April 2004 Old Judge Auction:

Lot 56. Extremely rare 1911 Zeenut Leo Pat Bohne (sic). Don’t laugh! The 1911 Zeenut card of Leo Bohen may be the rarest card in any popularly collected set. Rarer than T206 Wagner, the E90-1 Mitchell, the T206 Doyle, etc. The copy offered has obvious problems (it’s die cut around the player), but if you collect 1911 Zeenuts and hope to get a complete set, it may be a long time before you see another "Bohne". The rarity of the Bohne card was probably caused by the card being pulled. Bohen never played a game in 1911. A photo of a full "Bohne" card is included.
Minimum Bid $200.


I couldn't find a final price list.

Could the card have been pulled from production because they discovered Bohen's name was spelled incorrectly? I s'pose so.

There has to be more than one 'Bohne' card in existence, otherwise how could the die cut be IDed?

The last Claxton on ebay was picked up by some slug "off" of ebay. The seller ended the auction to the consternation of a lot of potential bidders and sold the card "off ebay". The sale price reflected the condition of the card. It was a beater. I think it was in 2006 if my memory serves me correctly.

Google the following:

jim claxton + zeenut

You'll get a few cool pages of information on Claxton and the Zeenut.

You guys are getting Leo Bohen and Sammy Bohne mixed up. Sammy Bohne was Jewish and has several later Zeenut cards. Leo Bohen was not Jewish and is worth a considerable amount due to the rarity. I also had heard the story that there is one complete copy known and the "Die-Cut" that Lew sold a while back.

The Claxton on ebay was sold "off eBay" to a Net54 member that paid, I believe $1000 for the card to be ended early, which of course wasn't nearly what it would have ended for had it run its course as I had a pretty hefty snipe set (and I have a feeling I wasn't the only one). That whole situation is another story and I won't get into it too far but there were sevral upset ebayers when it ended.

I feel the following is a list of the tougher early Zeenuts (1911-1923).
1. 1918
2. 1923 Sepia
3. 1915
4. 1914 Tougher than many think
5. 1913

Toughest stars...(this is a VERY subjective question)
1. 1911 Bohen
2. 1916 Claxton
3. 1915 Covaleskie and Heilmann (I can't remember the last ones I saw)
4. Several tied after that

sabrjay wrote:

Toughest HOFer is probably Thorpe. There aren't many and the people that do own it aren't parting with it.

Jay

Here ya go Jay!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120292272102