Great article about the MVP award

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Great article about the MVP award

Post by sabrjay on Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:31 pm


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Re: Great article about the MVP award

Post by cccc on Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:52 pm

c'mon trouty!
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Re: Great article about the MVP award

Post by LucasRiley on Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:36 am

Trout the last two seasons overall, vs. Miggy: Fewer games played; fewer ABís; fewer hits; fewer HRís; fewer RBIís; lower AVG. Detroit: ALCS both years (and three overall). Los Angeles: Two straight non-playoff seasons.

Now, are there other factors that play into Detroit's success vs. Anaheim's mediocrity? Sure, but I just don't see the debate here. (And please, don't anyone break out the WAR defense. It's a BS stat that's not universally calculated and utilizes theoretical medians rather than actual bench players.) Mike Trout right now is like the 49ers of the early 90's; a great team that suffered in the shadow of the Cowboys. And I hate using that simile, cuz I hate the Cowboys, but it's true. He's having wonderful seasons, but someone's having better ones. He'll have his day eventually.

For now, I say: Felicitaciones una vez mŠs, Miguel!
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Re: Great article about the MVP award

Post by sabrjay on Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:54 pm

Lucas, are you a member of SABR or follow how the stats are treated by them? The only real debate about WAR amongst them is how it's calculated for pitchers. WAR for batters has been so well accepted among the eggheads that trying to use any other argument for best player gets you laughed at, which is one of the big reason I quit SABR a few years back.

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Re: Great article about the MVP award

Post by cccc on Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:27 pm

yea what it boils down to is how people interpret the term "valuable". like football and hockey, i agree baseball needs a best offensive player award or something...call it the "babe ruth" award to recognize the best player in baseball each year. the mvp is turning into a joke!
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Re: Great article about the MVP award

Post by sabrjay on Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:06 pm

There already is a Babe Ruth award given to the player with the best performance in the postseason.

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Re: Great article about the MVP award

Post by LucasRiley on Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:00 am

sabrjay wrote:Lucas, are you a member of SABR or follow how the stats are treated by them? The only real debate about WAR amongst them is how it's calculated for pitchers. WAR for batters has been so well accepted among the eggheads that trying to use any other argument for best player gets you laughed at, which is one of the big reason I quit SABR a few years back.
I'm not a SABR member, but I'm quite familiar with them, sufficiently to know that artificial stats such as WAR are mostly their creation, or at least their bi-product. And the fact that they laugh at awarding the MVP via any other rationale tells me I'm wise to do just as you've done and disavow them as a standard-bearer (if not as a recorder of history, for which I give them much credit).
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Re: Great article about the MVP award

Post by sabrjay on Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:59 pm

Their stats they've come up with are very credible and I don't have a problem with them. I quit them because the academicians have sucked the fun from the organization.

It's tough to argue against statistically valid computations. This is what offensive WAR is. Right now, it's best measure of a player. Eventually, something new will probably come along, but for now, it's the king of stats.

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Re: Great article about the MVP award

Post by cccc on Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:02 pm

baseball is a game that follows tradition and old-school more so than any other sports, so it's hard to break these writers off from the old heralded stats like ba/hr/rbi. but slowly and surely they'll begin to die off and replaced by new forward-thinking people.
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Re: Great article about the MVP award

Post by glenv on Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:26 pm

Not sure if WAR is really the best measure. McCutchen lead the league in WAR. But in a key situation, would you rather have him batting, or Goldschmidt, who had 41 more RBIs, 15 more HRs, and batted .348 with runners on, compared to McCutchen's .290.

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Re: Great article about the MVP award

Post by sabrjay on Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:37 pm

MVP is an award for a season's worth of accomplishments, not one particular instance.

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Re: Great article about the MVP award

Post by cccc on Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:03 pm

one thing that can't be measure still (or ever) is the situational "clutchiness". is that just a fluky year-to-year random babip luck, or do some players rise up in pressure situations better than others?

if there's ever a definitive answer than i can see the "clutch" guy getting more merit for being valuable.
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Re: Great article about the MVP award

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