HOF

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HOF

Post by sabrjay on Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:16 pm

Vote results are due Wednesday. If you could vote, who's in?

For me:

Morris
Raines
Bonds
Clemens
Bagwell
Piazza
Biggio

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Re: HOF

Post by nolemmings on Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:43 pm

Biggio
J. Morris
Piazza
Clemens
Bonds
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Re: HOF

Post by sabrjay on Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:14 am

Why not Raines? If not for Henderson's amazing career, we would talking about Raines being the greatest leadoff hitter of all-time.

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Re: HOF

Post by jbonie on Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:39 am

I don't mean to sound like a blowhard, but I wouldn't elect anyone from that list - except Raines. Piazza and Biggio are first-ballot, correct me if I'm wrong. But I don't think either deserve to be first-ballot HOFers, so maybe next year for them.

We've covered this, but I'm a nay on Morris. He was a horse and I always admired him as a kid, but statistically he's got a low WAR and high ERA. Voters may send him in this year, however, just so someone makes it.
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Re: HOF

Post by sabrjay on Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:49 am

This is not a jab at you Jamie, I just find the "he's not a first ballot HOF" is a stupid argument for not voting for someone. Personally, I'd like to see voting changed to "One and Done". You are either worthy of being in the HOP, or not. This whole first ballot thing is just stupid. I also find the writers that claim the steroids users violated the integrity of the game so they won't vote for them are the same ones that won't vote someone on the first ballot because players like Cobb and Ruth didn't get 100% of the vote. If they are going to use historic precedent like that, then they should be letting in the steroid players because they original voters ignored the gambling on baseball that Cobb and Speaker did.

I personally don't have problem with the steroid era. Pretty much everyone was using so it was an even playing field for everyone. HOF criteria should be based on greatness in your era because it's not really possible to accurately translate stats from one era to another, so all you can do is compare players to their contemporaries.

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Re: HOF

Post by cccc on Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:00 am

yea if he's a hof'er, he's a hof'er. would love to see them shorten the 15 years thing, maybe 5 years or be really radical and it's one and done.

bonds
clemens
piazza
raines
biggio

you minnesota guys and your morris bias.
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Re: HOF

Post by jbonie on Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:30 am

The first ballot thing is pretty stupid, yes. But it is what it is. The ones who are voted in on first-ballot are recognized as such, and it's considered an honor. Seeing how things are now, I wouldn't bestow that particular honor to Piazza or Biggio, though they do deserve to be in.

I wouldn't assume that the voters who are into the first-ballot thing are necessarily the same fellows who refuse to vote in Bonds/Clemens for roids. Two different issues. Many just feel that it badly compromised the integrity of the game. We see Shoeless and Pete Rose outside the Hall for the same reason.

If I had a vote, I wouldn't put in Bonds or Clemens until they at least came clean on the issue. In my mind, that would make it more forgivable. Maybe that's backwards logic, but it's just how I feel.
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Re: HOF

Post by cccc on Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:38 am

jbonie wrote:

If I had a vote, I wouldn't put in Bonds or Clemens until they at least came clean on the issue. In my mind, that would make it more forgivable. Maybe that's backwards logic, but it's just how I feel.

that's be interesting if you tell those 2 you're not getting in until you confess. would they risk going to jail for the hall of fame?
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Re: HOF

Post by jbonie on Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:45 am

cccc wrote:
jbonie wrote:

If I had a vote, I wouldn't put in Bonds or Clemens until they at least came clean on the issue. In my mind, that would make it more forgivable. Maybe that's backwards logic, but it's just how I feel.

that's be interesting if you tell those 2 you're not getting in until you confess. would they risk going to jail for the hall of fame?

Sounds perfect to me. Very Happy
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Re: HOF

Post by cccc on Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:08 pm

no one got it. these writers are a bunch of hypocrites. they covered these players during those time, they knew what was going on. the gravy train was good so no one wanted to rock the boat. now they're on their high horses casting judgement on these guys. it's a disgrace that baseball is being mucked up by some of these guys who have never even played the game.
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Re: HOF

Post by jbonie on Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:32 pm

cccc wrote:no one got it. these writers are a bunch of hypocrites. they covered these players during those time, they knew what was going on. the gravy train was good so no one wanted to rock the boat. now they're on their high horses casting judgement on these guys. it's a disgrace that baseball is being mucked up by some of these guys who have never even played the game.

Bonds' head was about the size of a basketball back then. But the biggest hypocrite is Clemens, who had a congressional hearing to declare his innocence. He was lucky to get off. They should both get a lot more votes next year, but will it be enough?
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Re: HOF

Post by pariah1107 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:49 pm

Good to see Edgar Martinez vote total rise after a brief slump last year: 36.2% (2011), 32.9% (2012), 36.5% (2013)

The personification of the DH, I hope one year he will make it.
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Re: HOF

Post by cccc on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:54 pm

writers have all kind of biases and personal vendettas, and deep down they probably harbor deep resentments toward some of the players. wouldn't surprise me if someone of them will never vote for bonds. some of these guys make it like it's rocket science or something, where casting a yes or no ballot means they have to mentally back it up with a thesis about the integrity of the game and their moral compass when you know it's complete bullshit.

next year it's maddux, glavine, frank thomas, and mussina headlining. you figure 2 of them will for sure get it, and glavine probably also with 300 wins. that leaves about a handful of votes left for the pool of biggio/piazza/bagwell/trammell/raines/bonds/clemens/morris etc. (each writer can vote a max of 10 players each year).

edit: wow randy johnson, pedro, smoltz also on next year ballot. sorry to our minny members with that stacked list of pitchers morris will not get in his 15th and final try. will buy everyone a round at next gathering if i'm wrong nahnahnah
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