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WOW....signed W600 Young.

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WOW....signed W600 Young. Empty WOW....signed W600 Young.

Post by fisherboy7 Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:49 pm

Ebay has been so dead lately, how about this W600 Young that showed up yesterday? The large scan is very poor, but judging from the closeup scan, the card looks 100% authentic to me. I have no idea about the sig though. If that sig is good, boy what a special piece this is.


WOW....signed W600 Young. 859b_110

By the way....It's listed in the pre-1930's with a reserve, so there's no "outing" of an auction here (we don't worry about that anyway, do we). I'm sure most of us have seen the auction already, what are your thoughts? Over/under on # of offers the seller has received to end it early?
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Post by cccc Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:08 am

neat piece ben...if the sig is real i could see it being a 15-20k card. if the seller says he's been offered 8.5k for it, that probably means he'd take off line offers. i wonder why the closeup scan is much clearer than the full size...these ebay sellers are weird.

p.s. outing an auction is an oxymoron? people get so bent out of shape about it...usually the greedy ones.

p.s. when did he change his signature from DT(?) to Cy? we need an auto expert
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Post by phlflyer1 Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:13 pm

I saw that piece as well and am very skeptical about the signature although I am admittedly not a signature expert.

In addition to the signature being different (Cy vs. D.T.) I also don't think the way Young is written compares to other legitimate signatures that I've seen.

Regardless, it should still fetch a decent price just for the card/cabinet itself.

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Post by arandy Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:50 pm

I have some autographs of players and I've noticed that sometimes their signature changes over time. Mickey Mantle is a good example of this.
After doing some searching, I've found two signatures. The second auto is very similar to the signed card. I think that it is possible that it is real.

WOW....signed W600 Young. Cyyoungball_300 WOW....signed W600 Young. Young

-Randy


Last edited by arandy on Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by fisherboy7 Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:09 pm

Hey Randy thanks for searching. Like Quan said we need to find out if/when Young signed as "D.T." because both of those balls are signed "Cy". Neither ball signature looks anything like the sig on the W600.

The seller states in his description that he's awaiting a response from Spence authentication. He's also noted that a better front scan will be added. Seems odd that he didn't wait until he heard from Spence before throwing it on ebay. My gut says it's not a legit Young sig but it's certainly possible.
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Post by arandy Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:33 pm

The reason I thought they were similar is the way "Young" is signed. Putting them in negative mode, you can see some similarities.

WOW....signed W600 Young. Clip_i14
-Randy
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Post by sabrjay Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:23 pm

Everything about both signatures is different. Especially the construct of the "Y", "n" and "g". Granted, the sigs you are using for comparison is on a ball, but it doesn't change your structure that much.

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Post by arandy Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:41 pm

Her is another ball that says "Denton T. (Cy) Young". This is yet another variation of his signature. Read the description. It might help you solve the mystery. LINK

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Post by fisherboy7 Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:51 pm

The seller added some better scans of the front. The card itself is clearly authentic. No mention of what Spence's determination on the sig was though......yet.

WOW....signed W600 Young. 76a3_110
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Post by phlflyer1 Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:56 pm

I'm still not inclined to think that it is a legitimate Young signature. In particular, the circle in the top of the g is very small compared to all of the other Young signatures I've seen. In addition to that the circle at the top of the g is almost never closed in authenticated Young signatures.

Granted that a persons signature can change over the years but I've never seen any authenticated Young signatures that look like the one on this W600.

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Post by dstudeba Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:49 pm

I am no autograph expert, but it doesn't look like any of the Young signatures I have seen. Also the whole waiting for Spence thing seems a bit fishy.

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Post by Art Tatum Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:58 am

it's fake! yep! I stated that!

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WOW....signed W600 Young. Empty That's a nice card...

Post by T206Collector Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:58 pm

...too bad the signature can't be authenticated. I saw an awesome signed T206 Mathewson portrait a few years back at a show. It was amazing looking and the signature looked good to me, without making any comparisons. But the dealer confirmed it was a fake. Still, even with the fake signature on such great cards, it is nice to imagine "what if?"
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Post by Bicem Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:38 pm

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Post by bowlingshoeguy Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:21 am

That's a damn big write up to say this signature is unique but not quite sure if it's real. Take the Leap of Faith.

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Post by sabrjay Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:47 am

It's an old Mastro trick, bury the truth under a ton of words and hope no one notices

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Post by cccc Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:55 am

didn't read the description but looks like spence authenticated the sig? sick card then...
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Post by fisherboy7 Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:06 pm

bowlingshoeguy wrote:That's a damn big write up to say this signature is unique but not quite sure if it's real. Take the Leap of Faith.

I just read through that essay long description (ugh!) and didn't see anything that suggested that they weren't sure it's real. Besides, if JSA says it's authentic, then it must be authentic, right? Unless of course it's an elusive Sal Bando auto. Then all bets are off.

I don't recall the ebay price, but surely the consignor will make a bundle on resale.
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Post by the-illini Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:20 pm

i thought that card looked familiar. The signature looked fake two years ago on ebay, and it still looks fake to me even in the James Spence-authenticated holder...
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Post by sabrjay Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:25 pm

My thoughts too. Pretty much everyone thought the sig didn't look good because so much of the "Young" doesn't match up with known exemplars. I have a lot of respect for Spence as he is one of the best at what he does but I'd love to hear Spence's reason for giving this sig the thumbs up.

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Post by canjond Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:06 pm

Saw this earlier today in Goodwin's. I sure hope it's good for the buyer's sake! I wonder, with no know D.T. Young exemplars/samples, how one authenticates such a piece?
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Post by andybecker Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:55 am

sig does not look like any young sig i have seen.

when did sgc and spence get back together? or was this slabbed right after it sold on ebay?

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Post by cccc Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:32 pm

auction ended...if sig is legit, imo card went extremely cheap at 10.4k after juice. you figure a normal sgc40 young would be at least 5-6k?
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Post by Bicem Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:07 am

I could be wrong, but I think the ebay price was around $3-4k from memory, so I think the consignor did pretty well.
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