t205 Gold Boarder set

by sabrjay Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:38 pm

Issued by the American Tobacco Company in 1911, the set was originally scheduled to have 400 cards but ended up with just over half that. The most likely reason for this was the break up ATC by the Sherman Anti-Trust law. The gold boarders have actual gold flakes in them, giving them an slight irridecence that is almost impossible to fake. There are 12 different back by 10 brands. Sweet Caporal can be found with red or black ink. American Beauty can be found with green or black ink.

From my experience, rarity breaks down into these groups, rarest to easiest. Lines indicate signifcant changes in difficulty.

Drum
Hindu
=====
Broadleaf
=====
Cycle
American Beauty (both)
===
Honest Long Cut
Soveriegn
===
Polar Bear
Sweet Caporal (both)
Piedmont

t205 Gold Boarder set Josst205

This is info from Josh Levine

First off, T205 went through at least 5 different print runs and as
many as 9. by looking at the advertising backs and the cards that they
come with, you can tell that several of the SPs were substituted for
the minor league cards or each other. Also, the printings seem to have
substituted whole sheets for the different advertising backs. By
comparing back advertising, some pictures do appear. Unfortunately,
these patterns are extremely tough to figure out because new front/back
are still being found. In fact, for several years I had thought
Carrigan should come with Polar Bear advertising but I had never seen
one. Then two hit ebay within a month. New Drum backs were just found
within the last year as well. They seem to follow the patterns that I
have seen. But as Ted can tell you, everything is just theory until a
complete set of sheets is found (which I doubt will ever happen).

What I can tell you is that Austin seems to come with the most
advertisers missing only Hindu. I am fairly certain that he will never
be found with a Hindu because all Hindu backed cards are not available
with American Beauty, Broadleaf, Cycle, Drum or Hassan backs (which
Austin does come with). This is true with all the Hindu backs I have
ever seen and seems to be the pattern.

Other patterns exist in the set with regards to the different factory
printings and different color printings of the advertisements (i.e.
player fronts with Hassan Fact. 30 backs are never found with Sweet
Caporal Black backs).

I hope this helps and explains a bit more.

Joshua

by sabrjay Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:38 pm

anyone have a better looking Drum back?

by ItsOnlyGil Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:12 pm

Are borders other than gold seen in this set?

by fisherboy7 Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:18 pm

ItsOnlyGil wrote:Are borders other than gold seen in this set?

Hey Gil, many are seen with brown and even greenish borders. I believe all t205's were gold bordered at the time of manufacturing, but these greenish/brownish ones have since faded and worn down over the years.

by sabrjay Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:25 pm

I've seen yellowish ones where the gold never got applied. They are odd looking and on eBay look fake. You have to see these in person to be able to tell the difference between a real one and a fake.

Jay

by ItsOnlyGil Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:39 pm

This is a heckofa set. One of the first to include a player description and stats.
If border color variations can be collected as well, it is going to be difficult to keep me out
So far I have none, but have been closely watching some key cards.
Im planning on t205s to fill out much of my deadball card requirements

by ItsOnlyGil Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:47 pm

Could it be that the "gold" border set solely refers to the color of the border?
By that I mean that actual metallic gold is not used at all. But an alternate metal is used.
For example, when Jay states "I've seen yellowish ones where the gold never got applied",
if you start with a yellow colored border and coat it with metallic copper, the appearance may very well look golden.

This could account for some cards exhibiting a brown border, because as we know, pennies brown up with use.
And the green color border cited could similarly be explained if copper was the base metal,
because as we again know, the Statue of Liberty is copper.

Or is this getting too far into the realm of alchemy which is best left to Merlin, Saucier and other Wizards and Magicians?

jocolor

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by sabrjay Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:04 pm

Bill Cornell has been kind enough to allow a link to his site for all the t205 imsges.

Bill Cornell's t205 images

Jay

by T206.org Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:56 pm

I've got a fair amount of info here: http://www.t205.org

by ItsOnlyGil Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:07 am

Does discoloration of the borders result in the card being graded lower?
Should it?

by sabrjay Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:20 am

As far as I know, discoloration doesn't affect grade. Not sure it should. Given that the actual gold metal has been known to be missing from the boarder, I don't think it should affect the grade. It would be same as downgrading a t206 because it is missing the red ink. Then again, Maybe all those t206 Boston players missing red ink should be downgraded Twisted Evil

Jay

by bowlingshoeguy Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:13 am

Is "boarder" spelled wrong in the title or is it just bugging me?

How about that for hijacking a thread, no one has been attacked yet on this board for bad spelling, this may be a warm up. Laughing

Lee

by CobbSpikedMe Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:38 am

bowlingshoeguy wrote:Is "boarder" speled wrong in the title or is it just bugging me?

How about that for hijacking a thread, no one has been attacked yet on this board for bad spelling, this may be a warm up.

Lee

Yes Lee, it should be spelled "Border". You're keen eyes have not failed you. However, you must now be detroyed
shooting

Seriously though, that was kinda funny.

AndyH

by bowlingshoeguy Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:16 am

Can we have spelling interevention so my brother doesn't look like a complete dunderhead, Oh I forgot he is that already. What ever is below dunderhead he is reaching towards. Razz

by ItsOnlyGil Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:44 pm

I have no problem with those who opt for an alternate spelling system rather than that fostered by Webster. Afterall, Webster just made all of this up. Prior to him, everyone was able to spell whatever way they wanted. Who says that his method and rules are right?

100 years from now, they may still be debating the merits of Webster vs. Behrens Dictionaries.
(of course, that would only be JAY Behrens).

angry